[quote] You can't stand people out playing luna/nf by using its perks/archetype against them? To me that's called being a smart player. I'm not going to try and slug it out with a NF/luna that's just being bad/a idiot. [/quote] No, what I can't understand is people saying "I beat them with this gun, so they're not OP". A player who is of equal intelligence and skill isn't going to let you keep changing angles while they stay in the same spot. At the end of the day, an average 180 is still a better choice than an average 140 anyway. If you want to bring Range into it, a player of your skill isn't going to challenge Ace of Spades with Luna's Howl at range, so that point is invalid. [quote]Bad players? They don't want to improve or adapt so they love seeing nerfs. Means they can just potato around in a more potato friendly environment.[/quote] Did you ever consider that people don't want to be forced to use a particular set of weapons in order to compete? No one wants to be severely punished just for wanting to use a weapon that isn't top of the meta, those two guns will punish you for using any gun that isn't them. The exclusivity just makes it a "rich get richer" scenario. If the people defending these guns are so good at the game, then they shouldn't need the guns to farm other players. I get that players who just got the gun will want to use it but I consistently play against no-lifes with 15k+ kills on LH/NF and will sweat like their life depends on it in Quick Play.

I never said the other player would be standing still. Luna/nf become any old 4 tapping 180 once you miss 🤷‍♂️ ace 3 taps regardless. Both players can play ring around the rosey with each other all day but the ace will eventually win due to raw damage output. So what are they going to do sit there? Anytime people get into luna range I just ohk them with a fusion 🤷‍♂️ They don't have to use a particular set of weapons to compete. As i've said numerous times I don't use my NF and compete just fine. You can literally use whatever if you play to your weapons strengths and out think your opponent. Standing there face tanking bullets lost AF wondering why you died like most players do in the crucible won't help you against whatever weapon you are going up against. Those players literally punish themselves. The guys I got NF with when it first came out have 20k kills on theirs... I have 1200.

[quote]I never said the other player would be standing still. Luna/nf become any old 4 tapping 180 once you miss 🤷‍♂️ ace 3 taps regardless. Both players can play ring around the rosey with each other all day but the ace will eventually win due to raw damage output. [/quote] Ace also fires more slowly and needs to hit three headshots to kill in 3, a regular 180 kills in 2 headshots and 2 bodyshots. More likely that the 180 would win due to spamming shots that don't need to be precise. [quote]So what are they going to do sit there? Anytime people get into luna range I just ohk them with a fusion 🤷‍♂️ They don't have to use a particular set of weapons to compete. As i've said numerous times I don't use my NF and compete just fine.[/quote] You're using the next-best weapon and a Special weapon to beat it, I wouldn't say that you're really proving you can beat it with anything. Take the next Does Not Compute Shaxx gives you and pair it with the lowest impact Fusion Rifle you can find, then tell me you're going do just as well. Believe me, you won't.

It doesn't matter how slow it shoots. You tag them once they tag you once you make them miss they have to tag you 3 more times where you only have to tag them twice. I use this tactic at high level comp all the time. 180s do have to be precise. I use what works with my playstyle. That's the point. You can use whatever as long as you play to its strengths. It's called adapting. I'll watch potatoes ape in with a blast furnace with is not what that weapon is intended for and get deleted.. that's called not adapting your play style. I've used high impact scouts and low impact fusions and have done just fine. Used to love running the last wish fusion with backup plan. I still use it on close range maps. It's called adapting. I don't use the same loadout for every map because the same weapons aren't good on every map.

[quote]It doesn't matter how slow it shoots. You tag them once they tag you once you make them miss they have to tag you 3 more times where you only have to tag them twice. I use this tactic at high level comp all the time. 180s do have to be precise.[/quote] If that's how you're presenting it, then the enemy isn't even on the same level. You can't simply incorporate "make them miss" as a tactic of high level PvP, imply that you will hit every single shot and that the enemy won't try to do the same to you. Similarly, you aren't going to be able to use those weapons at a high level, they won't even be able to touch the standard loadouts. Some weapons have strengths that players will build themselves around countering, while others simply do their own job while also doing the job of another weapon that should be geared towards it. Call it adapting or whatever you like, not using LH/NF against someone who has it puts you at a notable disadvantage that you won't be able to overcome if they're as good as you because there is no primary counter to it and you're relying on them missing. End of.

The players at 3000-5500 are all the top players. I beat them out using luna by doing exactly what i've told you. Not sure what else to tell ya man 🤷‍♂️ I guess the top players are just trash then. You can't use those weapons at a high level? Says who? I have and do. By doing again... exactly what i've said multiple times. You are flat out wrong that's about all I can tell ya. Sounds like you need practice. Seems like you crutch on nerfs instead of improving as a player.

[quote]The players at 300-5500 are all the top players. I beat them out using luna by doing exactly what i've told you. Not sure what else to tell ya man 🤷‍♂️ I guess the top players are just trash then. [/quote] Well, I'm at 3000 Glory...……...so either you're wrong about that Glory range being an accurate representation of "top players" or you'd consider me to be among them. My whole MO is using bad weapons, there's nothing less interesting or enjoyable than using the same weapons as everyone else. I derive my satisfaction in PvP by winning with a disadvantage. Seems like, for most people, it's winning and acting as if their advantage (Luna's Howl) played no part in it.

Once you hit 3k the player pool drops off tremendously.

That's to be expected, there's very little to go for beyond 2100 and the people who get between 2100 and 3000 have likely made it there by helping others get Pinnacle weapons. The people that get to 5500 will do it every season and can only really do it for bragging rights. Having said that, I don't think Glory is an accurate representation of skill. I'm aware that they could have paid for it, but I've played against many people with Not Forgotten that can't even maintain a positive K/D. On the other hand, there will be people who are more than good enough to go deep into the Glory ranks but are intimidated by the Competitive playlist itself.

You can't really help people get pinnacle weapons.... you can but you are just making it harder on them in the long run. Once you hit mythic pretty much every team will be 5500 players. Glory is a pretty good representation of skill. The lower level people are potatoes. 300-3500 better. Mythic on up it gets pretty crazy.

I got two of my friends, who are bang average players, from 0 Glory to 2100 in a few sessions. I'd call that helping.

Were you already 2100 when they started at 0? That's the kind of helping i'm referring to. You'd be in the 4000s while they are 1700-2000 playing against people way out of their skill level. It's relatively easy to carry people from 0-2100 when you are still low in glory yourself.

We got to 800ish together, I went on my own and made it past 2100 then helped them once I'd got my Recluse this season.