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4/28/2019 10:50:37 PM
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These posts are what they need to pay attention to. They are hobbling the players that aren't die hards like myself and others.
And they're completely ignoring NEW players who are blue for life until they hit Forsaken content.
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[quote]These posts are what they need to pay attention to. They are hobbling the players that aren't die hards like myself and others. And they're completely ignoring NEW players who are blue for life until they hit Forsaken content.[/quote] Yeah lets go back to Year 1 when the game cratered to casuals lol remember how that ended
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Year 1 was about trying to become an e-sport. Bungie’s line about making the game more casual was a load of bullsjit.
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[quote]Year 1 was about trying to become an e-sport. Bungie’s line about making the game more casual was a load of bullsjit.[/quote] It was probably both, to be fair. It doesn't get much more casuals than tokens and gettin raid/trials weapons without even touching those activities.
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What do you get when you try to present people an RPG that has been stripped off all its RPG elements because you want Its PVP to be an e-sport. You get what LOOKS like a simplified RPG. When what you actually have is a BROKEN one...made by a dev team that had NO respect for PVE or its players. As well as no understanding of what motivated them to play the game.
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Not really bullshit, but not exactly how people portray it. Appealing to casuals and making things easy to obtain was true, but all driving towards your correct point about wanting the game to be an e-sport. Bungie did it so the barrier to entry in the crucible was super low, all gear could be obtained quickly so you too could jump into the latest and greatest twitch e-sport of Destiny 2 without delay. It was not done to make the game easy mode because casuals complained D1 was too hard. That’s a patently false straw man that people who just aren’t bright enough to see the big picture cling to.
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It was bullshit. You just have to know the things that Bungie and Activision weren't willing to say at the time. 1. Activision OWNS Major League Gaming (MLG). 2. Every property that Activision Blizzard owns that has "competitive" PVP is an e-sport. (Call of Duty. Overwatch. Startcraft) 3. Right around the time Destiny 2 "rebooted" in development, Activision was puttign out feelers to see how the Crucible would fair on TV as an e-sport. 4. ALL THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE TO DESTINY 2 FROM DESTINY 1 WERE ALL THE CHANGES YOU'D NEED TO GET THE CRUCIBLE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS AN E-SPORT. Changes that NO ONE on the PVE side of the game called for. a. Fixed Weapon rolls. b. Cosmetic armor. c. 4 v4 Crucible play (most popular shooter format for e-sports) d. All abilities being on super long cooldowns. (Try to make the crucible a gun game). e. Dual primaries (all OHK weapons in PVP become "power weapons") f. Energy weapons do bonus damage on supers g. Character skill trees stipped to the bare bones (So you don't get "troll builds") h. All perks that do any sort of RNG-based bonus damage stripped from the game. i Damage over Time removed from the game. j. Many of the games powerful legendary perks were turned into exotic perks. j. Massive emphasis on "performance-based" bonus perks.....mini-kill streaks. k. Power differences between wepaons and gear mashed as flat as possible. So you basically take a game that is a loot-based RPG...AND YOU STRIP OUT EVERY THING THAT DEFINES IT AS AN RPG....and what you have left over is actually little more than an over-engineered campaign shooter. How do you sell that game to people expecting a loot-based RPG? yOU TELL THEM THAT YOU'VE SIMPLIFIED THE GAME AND MADE IT MORE "ACCESSIBLE". When the reality is that you took the game and broke it over a knee...pursuing a different agenda....and hope your either customers don't notice. Or they are replaced by new customers who like the chanegs. NEITHER happened. The game just did a face plant on the way the MLG stage.
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I agree with most of this (goal was to make an e-sport of D2 and all changes geared towards that end). Only thing I disagree with was when you said Bungie’s line about making the game more casual was a load of bullshit. It wasn’t a total lie, it was a half-truth. Simplifying the game to appeal to the widest audience to increase the e-sport draw had the same end result as making a game for casuals. That half truth is what made “the casuals” such a convenient scapegoat to deflect as much blame as they could from the disaster Bungie’s true intentions turned into. At least for the ignorant masses that either didn’t want to or couldn’t see what was really happening with the game. It may seem like semantics we are disagreeing on, but it’s an important distinction. If there wasn’t any ring of truth then “casual” wouldn’t be the equivalent of a four letter word with this game.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 4/30/2019 10:19:51 AMThe worst kind of lies are when you bury it within a truth. Plus it makes the wrong group the target of anger. Many people are fighting getting rid of cores for infusion because they are still under the Bungie-facilitated misperception that Destiny 2 turned out the way it did because of casual players. It didn’t. It turned out the way it did because they wanted another e-sport to go along with Overwatch. The LIE is how do you sell a game designed for shooter gamers and pvp to an rpg and pve audience....after you’ve stripped it of those elements. “Broadening the appeal of the game” wasn’t a reason it was a rationalization for what was done looking for e-sport credibility. Likewise I don’t think it’s a coincidence that most of the team leaders responsible for vanilla Destiny 2 being the way it was are slowly being purged from the company. They are all leaving to “pursue other opportunities” at the same time. Which means Bungie is cleaning house and having another management shakeup. Only in the middle rather than at the top. I think the people who always saw this game as rpg-shooter finally got the game away from the pvp faction who tried rebrand the game in D2—and nearly destroyed the franchise in the process—-and are showing them the door. Luke Smith is running the show with the game, and I believe he doesn’t want this e-sport faction fighting him every step of the way like I’m sure they did when he tried to salvage Destiny 2.
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This is why D1 will always be a better game and no matter how much they try to fix D2, it will never get better - the very core (pun intended) is bad.
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Which is why I think we're seeing Bungie do what they're doing. They've pivoted to D3---or whatever its going to be called----and putting all their resources there. But you can't abandon D2. Because if you piss off its players....there won't be a franchise left by the time you're ready to sell it. That's the trap Massive nearly fell into with The Division. They'd let the game lapse into such a state (intially) and had related with teh community so poorly, we were doubtful for a long time whether there was even going to be a Division 2. Fortunately there was.
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I don’t remember if you mentioned movement speed, but that was another aspect of D1 that was changed to make D2 e-sport ready. If they have focused on D3 at the expense of D2 that’s not really a problem IF they do a better job communicating with their player base. Unfortunately, communication is not their strong suit.
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Did I mention it today? No. Did I mention it last year? Yes. Player movement speed was also slowed in an effort to further slow TTK...and force the Crucible to play more like Halo. Agreed on the communication....but they also need to properly MANAGE the game and the fanbase. You can't just abandon the game you have out there. Otherwise you're not only going to fail to maintain loyalty to the brand...you're going to stoke outright hostility to it. ...and if you want to see where THAT rabbit hole goes....just look at what BioWare is having to deal with simply because people hate EA so much.
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I’ve mentioned movement speed many times as well. And even after the go fast update, it’s still not right. That goes to the point that the core of this game is bad. Managing the player base can be done better through communication though. It seems like they seem to want to make big announcements and think that the TWAB will suffice during long periods of silence. The TWAB is usually more focused on some current issue in the game and not very forward looking. Never mind that they pick and choose what to address and ignore the really sticky issues. They need to find some courage and start addressing the real issues more frequently and give a better sense of where they are headed.
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Edited by badmajics45: 4/29/2019 3:52:05 PMStandardized weapons? Is that the e-sport part?
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At what point did I say anything even close to that?
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[quote]At what point did I say anything even close to that?[/quote] Where you cried about cores being hard to get but they are anything but
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Yeah I'll never understand the complaints about cores. I'll continue to say they require zero effort to obtain and if you can't play the game maybe you should move on.
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Oh look, more anecdotal “evidence” that cores are fine. And we all know that is the best kind. Can’t argue with that.
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Oh look another person who most likely uses cores carelessly 🤦♂️
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I don’t have cores to use carelessly, because I stopped playing the game.
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Edited by badmajics45: 4/29/2019 6:32:54 AMIf only I had realized I couldn't play the game a little earlier. Your wisdom is so clarifying.
