[quote]How could this game possibly be any easier? What content are you struggling with exactly that you need and extra light level or two?[/quote] ...and this is why this game is failing. Shooter gamers want difficulty to "test" themselves. RPG gamers want power-fantasy so they can experience things in-game that they either can't do in real life....or are too dangerous to try. Which is why vanilla Destiny 2 was a bad idea from the start....and was such an abject failure. Bungie took a loot-based RPG...and tried to recreate it for shooter gamers. ...and only succeeded in sucking all the fun out of the game. Worse still---they fixed the sandbox problems----only to recreate the similar one's in the progression system. Once again the game wants to be STINGY with rewards. STINGY with how it gives the player power....and only succeeded (once again) in sucking the fun out of the game. Just in a different way. Every loot game that tries this approach....trying to be withholding....eventually fails. ...and why The Division 2----which showers you in loot----is succeeding. ...and when (about two weeks ago) they made the mistake of sounding like they too were going to try to be withholding to try to manipulate player engagement.... ...the player reaction was so swift and so negative, Massive realized they'd touched a "third-rail" and backed down IMMEDIATELY. Unlike Bungie.....who seems to be prepared to go down with the ship.....

But why, apart from ego, are they so determined to piss off their fan base? I was quite content to play this game constantly as almost the only game I played during D1. Now D2 has completely turned me away from “games as a service”. So thoroughly disappointed in this Franchise.

[quote]But why, apart from ego, are they so determined to piss off their fan base?[/quote] They aren't. Think about it. Why do you get into conflict with most of the people that you do. Nine times out of ten, they aren't setting out to intentionally piss you off. You come into conflict with them because you stand between them and something they want or need....and they want it badly enough that they don't care (or don't pay attention to) how they get it. Bungie is doing this because they NEED us to play this game like we played Destiny 1. The problem is that this game ISN"T Destiny 1....and was designed to play very DIFFERENTLY than Destiny 1....and those differences won't allow it to play like D1. Think about it. If you were still playing D1...what would you be doing? Think about Rise of Iron. You played it. Leveled up fairly quickly....but then this lengthy loot pursuit and build construction phase took over. As you grinded various parts of the game for powerful loot items. To complete desired gear sets. Get raid gear, etc... Then in order to get the full use of those items you had to play with them to unlock their perks. Because of random rolls and a deep perk pool, old gear remained relevant because you could get a perfectly-rolled version fo a weapon to drop. You progressed quickly through the game vertically....but then there was this LONG tail of horizontal progression because the game was DESIGNED to play like a loot-based RPG. The problem with Destiny 2 is that it wasn't. It was designed to play like a campaign/competitive shooter. Because the people driving its development (many of whom are leaving) wanted it to become an e-sport. So almost all of the RPG elements that lead to the PVE replayability of D1...got stripped out: random rolls, having to invest in a weapon to unlock its perks, gear perks that lead to power differences between versions of weapons. I could go on, but basically everythign that could stand in the way of the Crucible being taken seriously as an e-sport got stripped out of the game. The problem is that the game failed. They broke the PVE end-game...adn the PVP oriented end-game (and probably player base) they envisioned never materialized. The Crucible got exposed for the mediocre and dated experience that it was without the speed and space-magic. So PVP players left to go play Fortnite and CoD. PVE players stayed and rebelled. Bungie backpedalled.....they tried to fix the game....but all they really did was a massive RETUNING of the game. They gave us our speed and space magic back....and they gave us special weapons back. They gave us random rolls back. But the problem is that the game is still CRIPPLED by the decisiions and agendas that surrounded its design (and its why I believe many of those people responsible are now leaving the company). THIS GAME SIMPLY ISN'T BUILT TO GENERATE THE KIND OF LOOT NECESSARY TO SUPPORT THE KIND OF LONG, END-GAME LOOT CHASE THAT WAS THE FUEL THAT DROVE DESTINY 1. So what they are trying to do get us to accept a game that doesn't have a short vertical climb....and then a long horizontal loot chase. But instead one with a long vertical climb....and then short horizontal chase that had to be manufactured (core grind). The reason why its pissing people off, is because what they are trying to do grates against the identity of the game....and people's expectations of loot-games. The only way what they are trying to do works is if you WITHHOLD the game's rewards....and you get the player base to accetp a chase driven by frustration rather than fun. By anticipated rewards rather than actual rewards. Some people will accept this. Most won't. Which is the lesson that Blizzard learned with Diablo 3, that led to Loot 2.0...and it being seen as industry standard. Which is also why every game that is seen as generous (Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls, Borderlands 2, The Division 2, Destiny 1: Taken King) succeeds. But those that are experienced as stingy and withholding (Destiny 2: Forsaken, Anthem) are struggling. The reason why Bungie is digging in on this....is they're afraid that the game is so bare of loot that if they don't do this...we'll quit anyway. ....and we might. But what they dont' understand or accept....is that we'd be much more likely to quit....but come BACK when there is stuff to do and chase.....than if they frustrate and piss us offf...and we quit in that frustration. Frustrated players generally quit and don't come back.

Frustrated players generally quit and don't come back. While I agree with everything else you said, this is currently the first issue they need to address. I didn't see the content drought as an issue, went and played something else while I eagerly awaited the next part to my favourite game. But. This current system has frustrated me to the point where for the first time ever I haven't logged in after an update, I've paid for the the pass but don't intend to use it. Most likely now won't ever log in again, D3 would have to be a gift from someone even then, the damage has been done! Options Bungie people want options, we don't want to play the game exactly as you tell us we have to, you have too many customers to dictate one way to play. Prestige mode raids, lets tell them which weapons we want them to use! great plan! What can we get them to do next? Arhhh what a waste!

[quote] Options Bungie people want options, we don't want to play the game exactly as you tell us we have to, you have too many customers to dictate one way to play. Prestige mode raids, lets tell them which weapons we want them to use! great plan! What can we get them to do next?[/quote] That's the problem in a nutshell....and its how companies run themselves into the ground. They become cut off from their customers...and they start to put their own organizational agendas AHEAD of the basic function of providing a satisfactory product to their customers. I agree 100% with what you've said. The biggest problem with the Destiny franchise is that Bungie simply either doesn't UNDERSTAND the game they've made....and either don't understand (or don't RESPECT) the type of gamer who plays it...and what motivates them to play it. ....and they are losing players because of it. The only thing that gives me hope at this point. Is that the two people who seem to have consistently SHOWN this understanding and respect-----Chris Barrett and Luke Smith----have been given control fo the franchise going forward..... ...and those devs and teams leads who consistently showed the least insight and the least respect....seem to be leaving the company. Chris Barrett and his Live Team did EXACTLY what you suggested in Years 2 and 3 with Destiny 1. They grew the game in ways that EMPOWERED the player to play the game in a way that was meaningful to them....and then found ways to reward them for it. They were content with you being happy to play the pockets of the game you wanted....as long as you were happy and kept coming back. But the people who are leaving.... The development and management of Destiny 2 has always seemed focused on this obsessive-to-the-point-of-the-pathologic need for CONTROL. Not to empower the player to play the game they way the enjoyed.... ...but this almost HOSTILE need to control the player and FORCE them to play the entire game...and to play it the way the devs envisioned. Almost like it was a movie or a play....and not an interactive form of entertainment. But it IS an interactive form of entertainment....and when you narrow the entire game down to only ONE way to interact with it....you remove the player and THEIR creativity and THEIR preferences from the equation. Which is why so many people are experiencing this game as a painful drugery...and a chore to play. Because we are being forced to interact with what has always been a shallow game....in the most rudimentarly and SIMPLEMINDED way possible...and to do it EVERY WEEK...WEEK AFTER WEEK..... ....with almost no say in the matter other than to quit from exhaustion....protest....or both. And as we....and Blizzard....have been saying. Players who quit under these conditions. Usually don't come back.

I wish I had your patience to spend the time to articulate the issues the way you do. I cared for the success of this game for a long time but, now, I’m just over it. I still hope in time people like yourself get through and changes for the better are made. Hopefully your feeling that the game is now in the hands of right people is correct. Sadly I don’t think I will be back to see it. Good luck Guardian! All the best!

Great response Mr G, but it was really a rhetorical question. However I agree with all the points you have made. 😀

You may have intended it as a rhetorical question....but its too fundamental of a question to be allowed to remain rhetorical. Can't understand where you are, if you aren't clear how you got there. Can't figure out how to get out of the mess you're in, if you aren't clear about what that mess is exactly....and how you got there.

Is Division 2 still doing great? I know it was the most complete live service loot/shooter to launch on console but I really see anyone playing it anymore. I know all my friends that wanted me to pick it up aren't playing, they called it boring once you're max gear score. I'm not bashing or anything I'm just wandering if it has staying power.

The game is in a lull before the launch of the raid. And, no disrespect, but max gear score is when the end game begins.

Ok. That's the difference between gamers again. You like min/max and experimenting, most of the people I play with just go for efficiency/completions. I get it. I'm still giving Anthem a chance. I've managed to max all my suits but not with he gear I want. Now I play the dailies and a couple of strongholds to try and grind some gear.

Anthem needs to solve their loot problems. But yes.....you are getting it. :))

Yeah Anthem needs work but the core game play is the best third person I've experienced. Keeps me coming back. That loot though, it's impossible to make a build at max gear score.

[quote][quote]How could this game possibly be any easier? What content are you struggling with exactly that you need and extra light level or two?[/quote] ...and this is why this game is failing. Shooter gamers want difficulty to "test" themselves. RPG gamers want power-fantasy so they can experience things in-game that they either can't do in real life....or are too dangerous to try. Which is why vanilla Destiny 2 was a bad idea from the start....and was such an abject failure. Bungie took a loot-based RPG...and tried to recreate it for shooter gamers. ...and only succeeded in sucking all the fun out of the game. Worse still---they fixed the sandbox problems----only to recreate the similar one's in the progression system. Once again the game wants to be STINGY with rewards. STINGY with how it gives the player power....and only succeeded (once again) in sucking the fun out of the game. Just in a different way. Every loot game that tries this approach....trying to be withholding....eventually fails. ...and why The Division 2----which showers you in loot----is succeeding. ...and when (about two weeks ago) they made the mistake of sounding like they too were going to try to be withholding to try to manipulate player engagement.... ...the player reaction was so swift and so negative, Massive realized they'd touched a "third-rail" and backed down IMMEDIATELY. Unlike Bungie.....who seems to be prepared to go down with the ship.....[/quote] Challenge is fun though and gear checks are part of that. If that isn't your cup of tea then a mmo lite probably isn't for you