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5/24/2021 5:31:41 PM
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I know.
I’m dealing with many of the gatekeepers on another thread.
I dared to suggest that the oracle changes were unnecessary and will mainly act to exclude newer players.
And here we go.
And how the “raiding community” here just lashed out with insults and insisting that I was only complaining because I “want it easy” (Never mind that I’ve done Atheon Challenge mode...on HARD...so no revives at all...in D1).
They ironically proved my point in their blind haste to disprove and delegitimize it.
Sad.
English
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[quote]Way to twist something nice to something apparently about power LMFAO[/quote] Actually more about ego, rather than power. [quote]Some advocate for new players you are all high and mighty from your soap box yet unwilling yourself to help/teach people[/quote] Actually I've taken people through multiple D1 raids. I simply dont' care to teach D2 raids because I dont' like them....and teaching something that I don't enjoy smacks of a lack of integrity. [quote]Again not everything should be a handout and if you're unwilling to actually back your mouth and help people I would stop digging the massive hole you're creating[/quote] No one here is asking for a handout....and the fact that you go to that accusation when anyone asks to change the status quo...is what calls your motivations into question. Not my twisting anything. Your own words and attitude are indicting you. Not me.
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You know I can see your d1 rr right? Again until you're willing to help people and get your hands actually dirty or raid in d2 in general stop going off people's opinions here vs actual in game experience. You're just talking out of your rear end preaching with no experience on the matter. Get off your high horse Kelly and actually back your mouth.
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Edited by TheArtist: 5/25/2021 4:12:08 PMYes I know you can and I have nothing to hide. The only raid challenge in D1 that I didn’t complete is a flawless run. Most of them were done in Year 3. I never said I was a Sherpa. You claimed that I’ve never taught people how to raid, and that is factually incorrect. I have taught people with in my clans to raid, and occasionally taught players joining a raid from LFG how to do certain fights. Which is why I’m aware of the fact that this change in raid design has turned teaching into a high risk affair....and that most people who are asking to be taught arent looking to be carried. Which is why I have nothing negative to say about those who simply bow out. But your continual need to flex and make clear your superiority, and to mock anyone who questions the status quo...and does so in ways that will make others more likely to want to teach? Is what is calling your motives into question. All I’m doing is pointing out The Elephant in The Living Room. And the harder you come after me, the more you just make my points for me. Want to see what gatekeeping sounds like? Go back and read your posts.
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Edited by Shade: 5/25/2021 4:15:01 PMI'm not flexing I'm pointing out your complete fallacy. Ever hear practice what you preach? I put all the sherpas in to lower you off your high and mighty soap box because Kelly can never do wrong amirite? If I wanted to flex I would tell you the over 100 runs my clan alone has sherpa'd new players but were helping. Guys with full time jobs btw. As soon as youre proven wrong you twist things like helping people to some egotistical fallacy. Its funny because you disagree with Oracle's and bad implementation yet Oracle's have been solo'd a few times. Its literally positioning and easy af mechanics. Like dude seriously?
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Edited by TheArtist: 5/25/2021 4:19:46 PMWho are you to define what these words mean for everyone else?!?! Wow, the utter lack of self-awareness!! Every word out of your mouth at this point just keeps confirming what I’m saying. Who died and made you King?!?! Who died and decided that you would be the arbiter of who gets to speak and which perspectives are valid?? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gatekeeping&=true You might want to quit while you’re behind...
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Nice try. Who made you king? See I can pull that aswell. You wonder why your posts have always been downvoted into oblivion with massive amount of comments disagreeing with you. Just a heads up your crap definitely stinks. For someone with little to 0 experience in this game you sure talk a lot.
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Edited by TheArtist: 5/25/2021 4:30:33 PMI’m not a King. And unlike you, I’m not trying to enforce a standard of who does and doesn’t get to speak, or which perspectives are and aren’t legitimate. I’m just here to make a statement of against gatekeeping in this community, and the Bungie design philosophy that enables this behavior. Behavior that you are engaging in are doing such a brilliant job of demonstrating this, that I’m sure there are people here thinking you’re a plant. So I don’t want you to be quiet for my sake. I’m try to get you to stop for yours. Because you’re embarrassing yourself at this point as you engage in every kind of elitist behavior that the players I’m advocating for complain about. And I get downvoted because I’m willing to stand up to attitudes like yours, and I won’t be controlled by group disapproval. There’s nothing any of you here can call me that I haven’t been called a 100x worse in real life. Those who speak truth to power are never popular with the powerful. I can live with that...and not lose any sleep over it.
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Edited by Shade: 5/25/2021 4:36:35 PMSo what you say sets the standards? Again are you actually getting your hands dirty helping people? Easy af to say something vs actually doing it. Which you're definitely not. Serious question what is so hard about vog on normal? Since I've already proven your Oracle fallacy I'm generally interested on what the great Kelly apparent defender of the little guy. But wont help them btw.
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1. Wrong. I’m simply offering a perspective that calls the status quo into question. It is a wildly held view outside of the raiding community but within the community of dedicated players. Which is why my initial post is not getting downvoted. Just the opposite. 2. You’ve only managed to prove my point...,for me. With your own behavior being the strongest evidence and indictment of this community. As for the issue with Oracles, I’ve already explained myself in detail. But you’ve been to busy trying to delegitimize what I said to actually bother to engage with it. Again—ironically—proving my point about this community, elitism and gatekeeping.
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Why are you dodging the question about the raid being too hard for new players? I've disproved your complaints and can provide multiple solo vids if you like? My attitude is completely fine, you're just upsetti spaghetti that someone who actually helps people disagrees with your opinions. Get your hands actually dirty and help or stop @ing me about anything with new players. Answer my question legitimately instead of dancing around the subject like you're perfect and the standard of what its actually supposed to be regarding end game. Just saying.
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Edited by TheArtist: 5/25/2021 4:57:13 PMI’m not dodging anything. I’ve already answered that question...multiple times..” You just ignored them, in favor of pressing your own agenda. What do I have to gain by answering that question a fourth time, that I didn’t accomplish in the first three? If you want the answer go back and re-read what I’ve already posted. It’s all there. And if you’re tired of talking? Walk away. I’m simply responding to your posts to me. But then we both know the real agenda here is to shut me up. Not to spare yourself from having to listen. 😎
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I've read everything and your opinion is literally Oracle's and omg so hard for new people. Concerning lfg when has lfg not been toxic regarding raids? You wouldn't be able to run crota or vog without ghally in d1 y1. You know the beautiful thing about lfg? You can make your own group consisting of what you want. You can even make a lfg for a sherpa and lots of people are willing to teach, or look for a sherpa post. That's how we picked up the new players, didn't see them have a major issue. Even the 4 who've never raided.
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I've read everything and your opinion is literally Oracle's and omg so hard for new people. Concerning lfg when has lfg not been toxic concerning raids? You wouldn't be able to run crota or vog without ghally in d1 y1. You know the beautiful thing about lfg? You can make your own group consisting of what you want. You can even make a lfg for a sherpa and lots of people are willing to teach, or look for a sherpa post. That's how we picked up the new players, didn't see them have a major issue. Even the 4 who've never raided.
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I've read everything and your opinion is literally Oracle's and omg so hard for new people. Concerning lfg when has lfg not been toxic concerning raids? You wouldn't be able to run crota or vog without ghally in d1 y1. You know the beautiful thing about lfg? You can make your own group consisting of what you want. You can even make a lfg for a sherpa and lots of people are willing to teach, or look for a sherpa post. That's how we picked up the new players, didn't see them have a major issue. Even the 4 who've never raided.
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Edited by TheArtist: 5/25/2021 6:04:36 PM1. Absurd oversimplification. Which pointedly avoids engaging with the reason WHY I stated that change would make the fights overwhelming for new players. 2. Rationalization...and deflection. 3. Deflection and Red Herring. 4. Rationalization. 5. Rationalization. Nah. No gatekeeping going on here. Not at all..... Move along. Nothing to see. Move along....
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Literally moving on because you have 0 rebuttal, so lets generalize it about the person and not the points made extra lol. For someone always boasting some kind of superiority complex you're pretty bad at deflecting, Kelly
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Edited by TheArtist: 5/25/2021 6:33:07 PMLol. You should be so lucky. You’re now trying to pull the “Declare Victory and Leave.” Bad faith argument as you try to accuse me of what it is you’ve actually been doing. Refusing to engage with the topics while attacking the character and legitimacy of those making the argument you resent. I can’t make you engage when it is clearly in your interests not to do so. As you keep escalating the bad faith arguments, deflections and rationalizations. But here’s a rebuttal you can take with you: [i]”Rationalizations are the ad hoc smoke that billows up from emotional fires. One no more treats rationalizations as if they were reasoned, principled arguments. Anymore than you’d try to put out a fire by standing around and waving at the smoke You put out a fire, by putting out the fire. If that is not enough, and the fires keep coming back? Then you put out the arsonist”. [/i] —Drew Westen. I think I’ve doused you in enough cold water for one day. My work is done here.
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Literally moving on because you have 0 rebuttal, so lets generalize it about the person and not the points made extra lol. For someone always boasting some kind of superiority complex you're pretty bad at deflecting. Kelly
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What’s interesting is oracles were in pattern, even back then, but you could kill them out of order. I don’t get why they had to change it either, and it was a very unnecessary change.
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Because back then, the only communication you needed was "open this gate", then it was DPS. For a boss fight, such few communication is very lame. Its why alot of endgame players didnt like DSC for being so braindead. Eventually we figured out we could skip the communication part and just 4 ball it based on where he is position. Quick run, no talking needed, get your loot. Such a casual experience should not be considered as "winning as a team."
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🤓🤓 DSC was too easy. Stfu please
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My response here was to Oracles encounter, not to Atheon encounter.
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Edited by Slevi: 5/24/2021 10:19:08 PMThat in arises another problem. Because you could kill them out of order, meant no one was talking to each other. I saw why they had to revamp oracles encounter in order to atleast accommodate 2-3 people talking. Obviously youre mad because you actually have to put in work and communication.
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[quote]That in arises another problem. Because you could kill them out of order, meant no one was talking to each other. I saw why they had to revamp oracles encounter in order to atleast accommodate 2-3 people talking. Obviously youre mad because you actually have to put in work and communication.[/quote] Literally what the f are you going on about? I corrected you on what my post was about, and you doubled down on your nonsense, ESPECIALLY with your last line. I literally was talking about that OG VoG had oracles in a specific pattern. The literal only difference is the fact that you need to kill them in that order now. That is it. My god people just want to push narratives so badly, they just make 💩 up now.
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You were questioning why they had to change Oracles and give it a specific order and I gave you an answer to that: to create communication and teamwork. OG Vog had little to no communication up until Atheon. You could have done all encounters without talking to any of your teammates. Sounds easy, but it creates bad synergy and the wrong impression of a raid. Raids should be about working and talking to your teammates. I and many others welcome the change. A challenge was given to us and we rose to meet its standard.
