Hard agree. Kg always pulling out them strawmen. How long until he makes his good old destiny vs division comparison? 😂

I never said you did. I said "other people's" strawmen. Not **yours**. [quote]The raid is a faithful recreation[/quote] No it isn't. Its been powerfully modified. But modified in a way that presevers the level of threat associated with the original raid in the current sandbox....and the mechanical demands modified to put it in-line with those of other D2 raids. [quote]Because it makes more sense as a mechanic and since it’s already been made easier, as ads are much easier to kill now and the number of rounds has been shortened, it hardly warrants an outcry.[/quote] No it doesn't. No it hasn't. ....and yes it does. For the reasons I've outlined. [quote]Your initial post had nothing to do with staying true to the original, that only became your argument once you realised you’d lost the last one[/quote] No it didn't. But people have been desperate to move the goalposts, and I responded to the effort to rationalize the status quo. I didn't LOSE the previous argument. Just responded to an effort to CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Hence calling my response a "strawman" is inaccurate at best. Disingenuous at worst. [quote]Is the raid true to the original whilst minimally streamlining mechanics from 7 years ago? Yes.[/quote] No it isn't. The tempo of combat is faster. The enemies are tankier. Overload Minotaurs have replaced Praetorians....and the mechanics are more complicated. Not less. Never mind "streamlined." Bungie's clear goal was to recreate the feel and the sense of THREAT associated with early runs of VoG...but this raid has been havily modified in terms of how its combat plays out. [quote]Is the raid any harder than any of the other D2 raids? [/quote] How many other D2 raids were made free to all players at launch?[ [quote]Is the raid harder than it was originally? No, [/quote] [b] ...and HERE is where you got greedy, and overplayed your hand[/b]. The fact that what were essentially raid CHALLENGES have now been made an INTEGRAL part of the raid does mean---mechanically speaking---the raid IS more difficult than the original. Which was my point The increase in difficulty will be disporportionately born by new and less-experienced players. To those already intimately familiar with the original, the increase in difficulty of the mechanics are a minor inconvenience. But for others, it will be a significant barrier to learning the raid....but worse...in securing opportunities to learn the raid. A point that even the most casual---but HONEST---glance at how LFG sites are operating makes abundantly clear.

I’ve never said any of those things. The raid is a faithful recreation, the only real deviation from the original is that one of the challenges is now part of base mechanics. Why? Because it makes more sense as a mechanic and since it’s already been made [i]easier[/i], as ads are much easier to kill now and the number of rounds has been shortened, it hardly warrants an outcry. Your initial post had nothing to do with staying true to the original, that only became your argument once you realised you’d lost the last one. Hence, strawman. But I’m not going to argue this with you since… well that’d be another strawman. Is the raid true to the original whilst minimally streamlining mechanics from 7 years ago? Yes. Is the raid any harder than any of the other D2 raids? Definitely not, (although I will admit I haven’t beaten Atheon yet due to time constraints and nothing else.) Is the raid harder than it was originally? No, it requires slightly more coordination in one part but because that mechanic is much more concise than before, it’s easier to do once you get the hang of communicating and counting to what, 7?