The reason why I main a shotgun, as it's the only way to make serious plays. End of d1/start of d2 created a play style of everyone holding each others hands and team shooting - facilitated in part by the lame ammo economy. If we are really serious in limiting spawn of special ammo fine, but take away rng in shotgun bullet spread and flinch away from snipers. A realistic way to curb special ammo is either disable scavenger perks, or have it og where u still spawn with special ammo but special ammo crates are back. When that happens I fully expect invective or the universal remote to come back.

Why not allow everyone to spawn with 2 and just remove scavenger mods so only one drops per kill? I mean it's the same argument as removing passive super gain. If you're getting rolled you have zero chance to come back without it. You'd be pissed if you had zero special and got aped by 3 people who did. The alternative you proposed puts you at a huge disadvantage when you die. Especially with the state of supers, abilities, damage glitches, etc. Spawning of special boxes on a timer is dumb too. All that would do is promote people camping spawn locations for supers and spamming abilities, most likely a bunch of stasis glacial nades / shatter dives, chaos reach, revenants, Titan Over shields everywhere, etc. It would turn into one of two things and I personally don't think either are good. A) major camp fest because everyone is scared to die first. B) extremely difficult to come back from a losing situation. Also that's cap. Bungie doesn't listen to the " tryhards" they listen to the kids who cry about everything while abusing the most busted shit in the game. They listen to the YouTubers and streamers that provide free advertising. They listen to the new lights and casuals that spend money on the game, season pass, and expansions but never play it. If Bungie listened to the " tryhards" 120s would have never been a thing. Snipes wouldn't have gotten nuetered. GLs wouldn't exist. Fusions would be hard capped at 15 meters. Scav mods wouldn't exist. Etc. Bungie doesn't listen to you or me. They listen to the people they benefit from.

If they dont address the maps, respawn, lobby balancing and matchmaking while addressing the sandbox changes of weapons, exotics and subclasses, then we are going to make no progress on the matter.

I don’t think the solution is to do anything with the special ammo economy. Bungie are currently in a never ending struggle to balance the whole of crucible around multiple conflicting viewpoints. It doesn’t work - it can’t work, because we’re all too different in our definition of the ideal. Instead of trying to build a one-size fits all Crucible, I think they need to add a variety of different modes that allows them to lean into certain aspects for one mode, without impacting the others. They’ve already developed some of this stuff: Mayhem - for those who love space magic Momentum Control - for people who like fast TTK primaries Team Scorched - for people who like bouncing round spamming rockets Problem is - these variations are on rotation - why not leave them in all the time and add some more? How about some legitimate objective modes? How about primary only and special only modes, how about some SBMM/Training modes? Thing with crucible now is that it’s easy to become a bit jaded or frustrated with it because it’s so same-y across all modes since they all operate under the same rules. IMO, a greater variety of options available at all times would serve to keep things interesting and perhaps bring in more players.

[quote]Why should I use a Primary -which means longer, harder gun-fights to get a kill- when I can use my Special Weapon all the time and get the same result with less effort? When I have Fusion Rifles that can obliterate my opponent in such a range, slide/jump all the time with my Shotgun, using Weapons like Jotun, Telesto, Whiterhoard ecc why should I bother to use a Primary? Like yeah, sure, I can use it, I do use it. But there's a reason if in the majority of the matches I play the 80% of the Kill Feed is Special Weapons Kills. They're easier to use and grant results with less effort. I mean, imagine a Map like The Anomaly, right? Honestly, why bother to use a Primary when I can slide/Shotgun all the time in those horrible corridors?[/quote] I suppose this explains a lot.

Hello, voice of reason. Finally someone who somewhat agrees with me. These things we've had since D1 called PRIMARY WEAPONS are called PRIMARY WEAPONS for more reasons than just having more ammo and should be used as such. There is an issue when a guy can spam a special weapon for the vast majority of their kills, that doesn't prove skill, it proves you have a crutch, especially when more than one guy is targeting the same person with these weapons.

I think the easiest way to fix it, is you spawn with a set amount of special, and thats all you get for the entire match. This would make people use special in special situations, as it should be.

There does need to be something done about the ammo economy, but not spawning in with special ammo would be a huge mistake. Having only 1 weapon option on spawn is not a good idea, and Bungie even said as much. Think about the opposing team killing most of your team and everyone spawns in with just primary ammo to deal with the other team, which likely has it and possibly heavy ammo too. That would be a severe handicap. I also think needing to get the final blow to get ammo would be terrible. All that would do is encourage kill stealing by the higher skilled players in the lobby. You need to have all players on your team, regardless of skill, to be able to claim the ammo. As an opposing team member I would want the lower skill guy to be able to steal the ammo from the higher skill player. It would also not be fun for those who continually get their kills stolen as they would never have special ammo since you suggest not spawning in with any. There are plenty of other options that could be implemented that could tone down the special ammo without completely neutering you after an untimely death. Some suggestions.... 1) Make picking up special ammo have similar mechanics as heavy ammo. You have to explicitly pick it up and the opposing team can damage you to prevent its pickup. I would probably make it faster to collect than heavy ammo though. 2) Allow teammates that are not running special weapons to also "collect" special ammo in order to deny the opposing team. This would require it to be explicitly picked up in order to prevent them from "accidentally" stealing it from teammates. 3) As many have said... disable ammo mods. Maybe the mods would not be an issue if the ammo could be contested? 4) You do not drop ammo on death if you are out of ammo. I always found it odd... How can I drop something I do not have? 5) I am not entirely sure how this works currently, but I believe that the amount of ammo you get on spawn is dependent on the weapon archetype. If true, then when you pick up ammo it is should be no more than the amount as when you spawn in. The amount of ammo on spawn could also be adjusted if needed. The reason I mention this is for some reason I am thinking that currently the more ammo you have on death the more is rewarded when its picked up. Maybe this isn't the case though. I'm sure that there are plenty of other suggestions that could also be considered. The goal should be to tone down the amount of special ammo floating around while at the same time not introducing a huge hinderance on you when spawning in.

The Problem isn't Special Ammo Economy. It's Hand Cannons Vs Shotguns is the Meta. We have ONE vaiable Primary Archetype, a Spam Cannon does more damage then a Rifle. That's just Stupid, there is a difference between a Long Arm and a Short Arm. --- Buff Rifles, and SMG's, make it so primarys can LOOK at a Hand Spammer/Shotgun Aper and REMOVE them till they change load out. RANGE AND TTK needs a Buff On Rifles, and SMGS. A Full Auto Rifle can shot Accurately with the Human Eye up to 300 Meters away, without a Scope. You add a scope and the range gets tripled. All Primarys EXCEPT Hand Spammers need a Buff in Range and TTK.

100% agree, hopefully the bring back universal remote and invective also 😏

bounties should be adjusted for this change ammo should be changed based on the weapon a normal shotgun would spawn with 0 but something like erianas vow would spawn with 3 shots in pvp you would get ammo from kills and picking it up off the ground no ammo boxes

Remove scavenger benefits from crucible. I never run scavenger and always have ammo.

I ran an entire map with tarrabah almost cracked 40 kills never touched my secondary (“ primary” in this case) special weapons are fine but they did do something weird to fusions the aim and recoil pattern is all off tremendously 🤔

Of course they are, primary sucks

Going to be honest, but I never want to see D2 Y1 or D1 Y3 again. If some of what I’m reading in the comments becomes a fact, pretty sure I’ll ignore crucible all together. Not going to deal with this garbage again. So the only change I’m willing to tolerate is scavenger disabling in crucible. That’s legitimately it. Nothing else. Anything else is literally too much. Besides, it’s still not going to change poor map design….

People love/rely on shotgunning too much for a change like this to ever happen I think the best option would be to have players spawn with 2 ammo like they do now but as you said only drop ammo on primary kills and limit it to 1 ammo per drop