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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Erafracture: 9/30/2022 4:14:52 AM
2

A Discussion about the Winnower and Gardener & Harmonic Logic

Let’s get a few facts straight the destiny community agrees upon as a majority. ( Not all of these are agreed upon by the majority. Some are simply speculations.) 1. Winnower is the source of the whole Darkness force. The power of Darkness and the Sword Logic basically originated from the Winnower. 2. The Winnower has been proven right every time in the flower game until the Gardener, aka the traveler, went inside to change that and prove that it’s ways we’re right. Btw, IT IS NOT THE BOMB LOGIC. That logic just stands out as the method that guardians use, but Mara Sov made it. The Gardener has a more complicated logic that I will call Harmonic Logic. 3. The Witness isn’t the Winnower. It’s a devout follower of the Winnower and is basically carrying out its will, probably as a way for the Winnower to balance the playing field without actually going into the game. 4. Harmonic Logic. What the hell is that? Harmonic logic follows the simple principle of foundations. Foundations are built upon by a person’s will to drive to build it. Read the common phrase. Devotion Inspires Bravery. Bravery Inspires Sacrifice. Sacrifice leads to Death. Foundations are built upon the devotion that one has to something or someone else. Look at the Sword Logic. The foundation comes not from devotion, but power. Take Oryx as an example. He created an empire on bloodshed, and he created his foundation not by the devotion that he had to the darkness, because devotion does nothing for him. It’s the killing, the power that strengthens him. Look at the Guardian now. We care about the Last City. We want to protect the last of the human race, our cabal Allies, our fallen allies, and so on. We have something to sacrifice, so we gain power to protect it. Oryx doesn’t have anything to protect because he expects you to protect yourself. Now that we got that out of the way, let’s move on. 5. Harmonic Logic. Light creates Shadows. Shadows are made by the Light. And within shadows is always a sliver of light. It’s never too dark. Except for the Witness. Anyways, the light balances both light and dark in order to bring out the best in someone. Void was the closest thing a guardian had to darkness before stasis came along. The traveler isn’t leaving us because we have achieved its logic that other timelines didn’t. Balance. And while the Winnower wants to cut off the weak link, the traveler thinks that weakness can become a strength if you let it, and the darkness within the Guardian was let out and used as a strength. 6. The Winnower is tying to win the flower game and prove it is correct. Simple as that. Only, there’s one problem. What flower game? 7. The flower game. Aka the black garden. Now, this will seem controversial, and some may disagree but I say that’s the garden that the Winnower and the Gardener are in. The vex would always be the sole survivors of the flower game, wiping out everything else. That is, until a home to another plane of existence brought them into our realm. But can’t we say that they could go back? That they could travel through planes of existence? They did so already before. And the vex aren’t dumb. All I’m saying is that maybe, just maybe the black garden is a good representation of the place the Winnower and Gardener would be in. After all, it’s irregular to the style of the vex, yet they accept it with its roses and beautiful and serene atmosphere. So it’s quite weird. 8. But Erafracture, there is darkness inside the black garden. If the Gardener was there, wouldn’t there be light? No. Not anymore. She left to become a giant ping pong ball. So the Winnower would be the only one left to cut off the leaves and the flowers. Nothing would grow. Which leads me to something very controversial and I have basically no evidence for this. Maybe the Winnower stopped doing its job because there was no more Gardener. That begs the question. Where is it? Well, it’s in a higher plane of existence, like the black garden. I don’t have the answers to it, so this is just speculation. But now, there is light inside of the black garden, because the guardian cleared it out and brought light back to it. Bout it does really bring up the question. Who is growing the flowers? If it’s not the Gardener, and the Winnower isn’t cutting the flowers, then what’s happening in there? I believe our answer lies in the black garden. It’s irregular to the vex as I did. It has a unique factor no other place in Destiny has because it makes no sense. A darkness blob is being worshipped by vex that live in a place with FLOWERS?! Look at Mercury. There was grass there. Not anymore. So it makes no sense. That’s why I say it’s where the flower game took place. But who is growing the flowers if the Winnower stopped cutting the flowers? And I based my assumption on the fact that the Winnower wouldn’t be able to grow flowers if the Gardener isn’t there. Which leads me to a final speculation. 9. The Winnower is a literal hypocrite. Because it grows the flowers. If it truly hasn’t left, then it grows the flowers, meaning it has achieved harmony, aka harmonic logic, aka the traveler is right. Because the Winnower isn’t dark, but it created it while the Gardener created Light. Problem is that the Winnower believes in cutting only while the Gardener believes in growing. So if the Winnower is truly growing the flowers, it has achieved something different. And who knows? Maybe this is connected to the new darkness subclass. But that’s all. Thanks for reading this.
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  • Lot of text but there are some holes. I wouldn't say the Witness is fulfilling the Winnowers will since there is no proof of this. If anything he just a powerful darkness wielder, and the Winnower is just going about its business. Just like how guardians claim to serve the traveler but have no idea what it's will is. Also the Witness wants to destroy everything to reveal the final shap, but the Winnower just wants to continue the flower game, ergo the Witness is following his own will not the Winnowers, as under the flower game rules any group that forms communities survives. I do think the whole purpose and grand story arc is heading to harmony. However the Winnower isn't evil its just trying to play the game and complete the pattern. After all the Winnower represents death and decay which is a vital part to the life cycle. Otherwise we would run out of resources to support all the living creatures and new creatures would never get a chance to flourish. If anything the Traveler/gardener is more evil since it wants everything to live and is willing to abandon its responsibilities to try and see this goal to fruition. So without the gardener present to play the game, everything falls out of balance. I mean it's literally breaking the laws of nature by resurrecting the dead. If I had to guess I'd say the saga will end with us killing both or sending the gardener back to the garden with the Winnower.

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    • The only real problem with this theory is in the unveiling lore book when they talk about the flower game, it’s all metaphorical. All the events happened, as far as we know but we are told that the flowers aren’t actually flowers. They are a placeholder for life. They could be a species, a person, a planet, a galaxy, etc. Even if the black garden was the garden where the flower game was played, the winnower tells us that he entered the game as well, and that now that they were in the game there were no other games, no second chances, meaning there was no going back to the garden (which is said they left in ruins during there original fight). I know the winnower may not be a reliable source but it is the only source we have.

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