[quote]Because almost nobody plays control anymore[/quote] Yet out off all modes had the highest population and retention then any playlist outside of IB. SBMM did exactly what they wanted it to. Kept more people playing past bounties and out.

Yesterday overall pvp population was around 450K across all platforms… those are extremely low numbers. Today’s overall pvp population will even be lower than yesterday’s. I am sure of that. And your argument that control has the highest population is very much flawed as control is the only main 6v6 game featured consistently (every day, every week, every month) so you can’t compare control to any 6v6 or 3v3 modes. I can tell you for sure… that if Clash for example was the only 6v6 game mode featured (in the place of control) then that game mode would have the highest population in the crucible regardless of the overall population at the present time. So… it is NOT the popularity of a game mode but rather which crucible game mode is featured as a main option to play crucible… You see… that’s Bungie’s way of manipulating popularity for a specific game mode. And your experience in control is OK (I do believe you that your experience based on your skill bracket is exactly what you’re looking for). But that is not the case for lots of players as the wait time while matchmaking is ridiculously long especially for highly skillful players. So it’s not exactly SBMM that is the problem but rather low population in specific skill brackets that was created by SBMM. Note: I assume that your experience in control is not that much laggy… But that is not the case for higher skill brackets. Here the lag is crazy most of the time… You match people all over the world (and I haven’t even mention the crossplay lag). So taking all of that into account, first you WAIT 5-7 minutes in orbit while matchmaking is searching for 12 players in your skill bracket and then once you start playing an actual game it turns out that almost everyone is laggy… So as you can see, your experience in control and my experience in control are way different. For me it’s a waste of time to sit in orbit for almost as long as the length of an actual game… For you this most likely isn’t an issue as your matchmaking times are probably much quicker than mine, and then your games I suspect are more balanced and not that laggy… And if that’s the case, then I am happy for you. But… this doesn’t change the fact pvp population in this game is seriously fed up with Bungo’s negligence for creating a much better crucible experience for all… and that’s the overall reason why so many dedicated crucible players have already left this game. I could give you a list of pvp issues that need to change but the list would be too long… Let me end with this issue… MAPS 😂😂😂 Maps (or lack of them) is a complete joke and insult to pvp community. And it’s been like that for years now!

I'll reply on 2 things to keep it simple. The pvp pop yesterday was not 450k. Are you using destiny tracker that I ckides Gambit? It would be wrong with that too. And mentioned, actual pvp crucible numbers are accurate on Charlemagne. November 27/28, pvp all platforms 190k. Aire that still low but that's the actual number. Second, my pvp experience is what the average player is experiencing. Most of that pop doesn't come here to whine about pvp. So...it did what Bungie wanted to do. Did you actually read the TWAB where they showed the stats on player pop and retention of control? It beat every other mode. I wasn't just making stuff up. They provided it. Which is why they are expanding the modes that will have sbmm next season. Because it worked. In the end Bungie will only care about total population numbers being higher. They will not and should not cause (as much) about the smaller ends of the community. But guess what? They are? Because there going to tweak the balancing for the far ends of the skill spectrum. I guess you missed that in the TWAB too. Thanks for the long post of misinformation 🤦🏻‍♂️ Edit add. Thirdly. "Dedicated" players haven't left. Only the ones that can't stomp other players anymore. Real pvp enthusiasts have stayed.

Thanks for this prompt reply. Yes, your numbers are correct 190k (which is even more pathetic than mine number). Regarding TWAB… Stop being BUNGIE’s fanboy… Bungie is known for manipulating numbers and not showing all of their cards… That TWAB you mentioned did not explain everything. And it was made when the overall population was much higher than presently. If you truly believe that everything is fine with crucible (including population numbers, game modes, maps, lag, matchmaking, metas, sandboxes) then there is only one thing to say… You are DELUSIONAL. But it’s not too late to get help… Consider a good psychiatrist 👩‍⚕️ or just start using critical thinking skills 🤔 Lastly… before you reply back with another fan-boyish comment (or an insult) just know this… You have a very low overall KD in the crucible so maybe those with a much higher crucible KD know a bit more about about the crucible to begin with (meaning what is good/bad for the health of the game).

Lol. More "high KD bias" I've been playing Destiny pvp since D1. In fact more time in pvp in D1 because it was more enjoyable. I've been playing online shooter pvp since the early 2000s. What were you doing then? I'm an average player with an average KD ( Destiny average pop KD is actually below 1.0) So my time in and my experience is based exactly on where my skill level is. Just because I can't compete with a 2.0 player doesn't mean my opinion is baseless. That's the worst argument people use on these forums and it simply makes you look elitist. PVP should be firstly [u]fun[/u] for the most pop of people. Then you figure out where the high level players should live. And it's not at the expense of fun for the lower tiers. Get off your high horse. I didn't comment on the other things wrong with pvp because frankly I do agree with some of them. But it wasn't what we were talking about. We're talking about player pop and retention. Now that you've entered the "your KD is bad" corner and thrown the 'fanboy' insults out, I'm simply going to ignore you now. You've put yourself in that box and it will be hard to get out of. Enjoy sbmm next season. I know I will.

You have 374 hours on the crucible. I have 2375. Please let people with more experience than you voice their opinions. It isn’t “misinformation”. Is our truth.

[quote]You have 374 hours on the crucible. I have 2375. Please let people with more experience than you voice their opinions. It isn’t “misinformation”. Is our truth.[/quote] Elitism at it best here folks. 🤡 I've been playing pvp shooter since the late 90s but I don't get to have an opinion because I touch grass every once in a while. Meanwhile ive played less here ecactly becsuse the pvo experience has been garbage for okayers like me. This is exactly why Bungie out sbmm in. So players like me have a place to have fun.

You get an opinion, but it carries less weight. The opinions of a novice Carrie’s less weight than the opinion of an expert. Put in the time to gain the experience and you too can be punished by Bungie for being a dedicated player. It’s just the way it is. SBMM will eventually get to you, and as you improve you’ll start understanding the frustrations of people with more experience than you. My experiences aren’t misinformation. If there were enough players playing then SBMM might work. But when I’m playing people in 4 different continents you know it’s not working. When people are teleporting everywhere and kill/deaths are delayed by several seconds, it is not working. It’s certainly not “loose”.

That's ok. There's more of people like me than you. 🤡 It's called a skill ceiling. I've been playing shooters for over 20 years so I consider myself an expert of my skill bracket. Therefore my opinion carries more weight there than yours does because I know what players like me want out of pvp more than you do. Frankly that's been proven time and again that high level players have [u]no idea[/u] what mid players want. So for me and mine, sbmm works perfectly the way it's supposed to in our bracket simply because there are more of us. It allows us to win some and lose some and that's ok. So again, take your bias elitism and shove it

I’ve also been playing shooters for over 20 years. What does that have to do with anything at all about Destiny 2? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why should the game cater to players who play 3 games a week for their pinnacle and then quit?

[quote]I’ve also been playing shooters for over 20 years. What does that have to do with anything at all about Destiny 2? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.[/quote] It has to do with experience and knowing what I want out of a game. Destiny or otherwise. It's ignorant to simply ignore or dismiss that experience simply because it doesn't align with your vision. Again, there are more mid level players than high level. Nevermind adding the lower levels to that count. It's nothing but elitism that makes you believe that those players have less of a voice. Should there be a place for high level play? Absolutely. Does Bungie have work to do to make that place worth playing for you? Absolutely. However the majority of the playlists should be fun for the largest selection of players. That's what their aiming for next season. I'm sorry if that offends you in some way.

Players who barely touch control should have a voice? Sorry but no. Players who actually PLAY the playlists should have a voice. The playlists should be fun for those who actually play it. Not players who only dip their toes in control once a week.

Lol. Your such an ignorant elitist 🤡 People like you are what drives players away. Even more than any MM style could. 🤡 You don't know me or why I play yet you judge like an elitist strawman fool. Are you a millennial? Your argument has no weight because of your elitist bias and being an exclusionist. You only want pvp for yourself and screw anyone else. 🤡 Take care now and enjoy the sbmm next season. I know I will.

How can you enjoy something you barely play? If this season is any indication, SBMM isn’t helping you at all. Still bottom 40%. I don’t understand people who praise SBMM and still get stomped on a regular basis.

What's funny about how wrong you are about me is this. I reset at Shaxx 2 times to get the pvp ornament and I haven't done the 2nd reset with Zavala yet. So guess what mode I played more of this season? 🤡 Your ignorance is staggering. I'm going to be now because I have to get up and touch grass tomorrow for work. I don't think I'll be responding to you anymore because it's not worth trying to push through you elitist ignorance. Have a nice life

Dude… you don’t even play any end game pvp (meaning trials). You are a casual crucible player with a below 1.0 KD. And that is OK. There should be a place in the crucible for all players regardless of their skill level. And maybe next season will do that or maybe it won’t (considering Bungie’s record).

Give me a reason why I should play trials? I used to play more comp when the rewards were decent. Why should I play it now? Gove me a reason? Your definition of casual needs work. What does my lack of endgame pvp (only really meant for high level play) have to do with my opinion about sbmm? Something that's not even in those modes? Help me try to make sense of your posts outside of you being an elitist? I play what pvp I can because I enjoy it. Why does that make my opinion on it invalid?

Hmm… So you actually see issues in the crucible but you’re admitting them very reluctantly… only when it fits your argument. The trials issue you mentioned is a real problem. And yes, I do agree with you on that subject. But that’s Bungo’s fault as they are responsible for creating this BS Trials system that is very “unfriendly” to players like yourself. And I don’t blame you for not playing trials. Most likely I would do the same in your shoes.

I see that as issues, but I don't see many of them as game breaking for me the way some here do. So overall it didn't fit my argument in any way at all [u]You[/u] brought it up so I answered. No arguemet agenda at all