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2/1/2023 10:38:52 AM
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This is the same thing as punishing larger clans?
Nothing is preventing you guys from recruiting and expanding towards the 100 person cap, if you choose not to, instead to be a closed off, secluded and private clan, I think the penalty of needing to grind out extra xp is fair.
In the current scenario, you’re being punished for using the system selfishly, for your small group.
And real clans are rewarded for engaging with the larger community.
I would prefer it remained as is.
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There is nothing that says a "larger clan" is a "real clan" and smaller ones are not. That's an absurd statement. Larger clans are practically left worthless because smaller clans can't compete. So your position is basically cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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[quote]This is the same thing as punishing larger clans? Nothing is preventing you guys from recruiting and expanding towards the 100 person cap, if you choose not to, instead to be a closed off, secluded and private clan, I think the penalty of needing to grind out extra xp is fair. In the current scenario, you’re being punished for using the system selfishly, for your small group. And real clans are rewarded for engaging with the larger community. I would prefer it remained as is.[/quote] How in the gods names is helping little clans punishing big ones? I would really like you to explain what's been taken away or how you are being censured for being in a large clan, simply by scaling the xp for smaller clans?
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Giving small clans more for less is the same thing as giving large clans less for more. You don’t deserve a reward for being closed off. When you put systems in your game, if you do it intelligently you reward the behaviour you want to see more of. For clans, it’s more rewarding to have more people. This change would be a slap in the face to real clans, and encourage behaviour Bungie doesn’t want to see. Like closed off groups that don’t engage with the community at all.
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[quote]Giving small clans more for less is the same thing as giving large clans less for more. You don’t deserve a reward for being closed off. When you put systems in your game, if you do it intelligently you reward the behaviour you want to see more of. For clans, it’s more rewarding to have more people. This change would be a slap in the face to real clans, and encourage behaviour Bungie doesn’t want to see. Like closed off groups that don’t engage with the community at all.[/quote] So apart from your ego it doesn't impact you at all. Gotcha.
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My ego isn’t involved in this at all, I gave you a very practical and salient criticism of your idea. Do you not often face opposition in your life? Is that why you won’t recruit?
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[quote]My ego isn’t involved in this at all, I gave you a very practical and salient criticism of your idea. Do you not often face opposition in your life? Is that why you won’t recruit?[/quote] That's exactly what it is, it doesn't actually impact you other than the "well if we have to do it so do they" attitude. It's not all about you, this is a video game and to put other people down because they dont have a large number of people in their clan and are asking for scaled xp doesn't look very good. There could be a number of reasons they didn't have a big clan. Could be related to social anxiety, could be just a bunch of friends, you don't know. It doesn't punish anyone asking for scaled xp. No one. Just peoples egos.
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Edited by Rogue: 2/1/2023 12:04:39 PMYou’re mistaken, my ego isn’t involved in this at all, I’m not even sure where you think it could be coming in. As I already outlined, from a design perspective, the goal of a clan is to bring people together and encourage them to make friends. To encourage this behaviour, you are incentivised with clan xp. Smaller clans, who stay small for whatever reason, don’t deserve extra incentive for going against the design goals of the clan system. I understand the social anxiety angle, but do you intend to let it rule you for the rest of your life? Consider this a call to action, carry out the intended purpose of Destiny clans. You have new skills, lifelong friends and triumphs to gain, and absolutely nothing to lose.
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[quote]You’re mistaken, my ego isn’t involved in this at all, I’m not even sure where you think it could be coming in. As I already outlined, from a design perspective, the goal of a clan is to bring people together and encourage them to make friends. To encourage this behaviour, you are incentivised with clan xp. Smaller clans, -blam!- small for whatever reason, don’t deserve extra incentive for going against the design goals of the clan system. I understand the social anxiety angle, but do you intend to let it rule you for the rest of your life? Consider this a call to action, carry out the intended purpose of Destiny clans. You have new skills, lifelong friends and triumphs to gain, and absolutely nothing to lose.[/quote] You were asked to explain how this punishes larger clans. I'm still waiting.
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I already responded to that. It gives large clans less for more, and small clans more for less. Going against the very design goals of the system. I answered that as soon as you asked it.
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[quote]I already responded to that. It gives large clans less for more, and small clans more for less. Going against the very design goals of the system. I answered that as soon as you asked it.[/quote] That's not punishing them. If people don't want to do something because smaller clans get a hand up that's on them. This bs us so entitled is unbelievable.
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How is wanting every point of xp we earn to be worth a point of xp entitled, when you want more xp per point?
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[quote]How is wanting every point of xp we earn to be worth a point of xp entitled, when you want more xp per point?[/quote] You still haven't explained what the punishment is. What's been taken away from you other than some misplaced sense of achievement, in a game.
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Edited by Rogue: 2/1/2023 1:45:52 PMNothing to do with a sense of achievement. Why are you speaking for me, when I’ve clearly outlined my own views? Individuals within the large clan would get less progress for the same work as people within a small clan. Right now, it’s fair, everyone gets the same for everything. That’s as fair as it can get. The clan system, by design, encourages growth. That is the benefit you see in a larger clan. That we get our clan milestones faster and have more people to earn xp quickly. That’s the built in incentive, and it’s intended to push people towards the behaviour Bungie wants to see. Communities, friends occupying the world and having genuine special moments. A small group of 10 people should 100% feel the sting of a drawn out xp grind for clan milestones. God forbid, it might encourage one of them to reach out and actually meet someone they enjoy talking to. All I’m advocating is for 1xp to be 1xp, and suggesting this system was designed to encourage healthy behaviour.
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[quote]Nothing to do with a sense of achievement. Why are you speaking for me, when I’ve clearly outlined my own views? Individuals within the large clan would get less progress for the same work as people within a small clan. Right now, it’s fair, everyone gets the same for everything. That’s as fair as it can get. The clan system, by design, encourages growth. That is the benefit you see in a larger clan. That we get our clan milestones faster and have more people to earn xp quickly. That’s the built in incentive, and it’s intended to push people towards the behaviour Bungie wants to see. Communities, friends occupying the world and having genuine special moments. A small group of 10 people should 100% feel the sting of a drawn out xp grind for clan milestones. God forbid, it might encourage one of them to reach out and actually meet someone they enjoy talking to. All I’m advocating is for 1xp to be 1xp, and suggesting this system was designed to encourage healthy behaviour.[/quote] So let's be clear about this, you're upset that a small clans could get scaled xp because wr feel it cheapens your contribution to your clan. So when you say punish, that's not what you mean. You're not losing anything or being forced to do anything other than what you are already doing. You just don't want people to have a leg up because you don't think it's fair. Next time, think about the language you use.
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I'ma try to word this so nobody gets upset. Lol, right... JUST MY OBSERVATIONS AND OPINIONS... I was on a 7 person clan once, and only 3 of us were regularly active. Daily. Me more so. And we met the requirements for clan XP (I think it was 2k, or 5k a week?). Now I DON'T know if larger clans have that same point requirement, or if it's a different amount. Either way, I know there's not a max member only requirement to be in a clan. As toxic as some players can be, and as toxic as some people are in forums, do you honestly blame anyone for not wanting to be around a large group of people? Plus I've seen some of these 'family' clans with 1 2 and 3 after their name because they're so big, one clan isn't enough. And I've seen these same clans recruiting for more people to join (many reasons why: booting casuals, reforming the clan, or even 'we're better because we're bigger'). I left the small clan for a larger one to see if it went better for me. Nope. Out of 100 ppl in that clan, 7 ppl played, and none in the same fireteam nor doing the same activity. Not saying they're all like that, but it was so in the clan I joined. Anyway, there's that. Not everyone loves Gambit, but it gets played when pinnacle/2X exp comes around. Same with Crucible, IB, etc. It's an incentive to people to partake in, when 'bonuses' are offered. The same bonus from these activities go to everyone equally whether you're in a clan, fireteam, or freelance. So why should small clans be limited when nothing else is in the game? (Besides paying/not paying for season pass etc... But we're not going there... That's a different subject and not the point here). I feel there SHOULD be an XP scaling to an extent BECAUSE there's so many maxed clans out there. 1.0 xp for max clan, but maybe 1.5 xp for less than 50, 2.0 xp for less than 10. Let me make a real world comparison... Employment. If someone has to work a double because someone didn't show up for their shift, should they just get the regular hourly pay, or 'overtime' pay? They have to work more because there's less people, so they get a 'bonus' for doing so. If someone was forced to pull doubles everyday with no 'bonus' to compensate their hard work, are they going to continue to do that? No. So why should a small clan be forced to work harder to get the same things a larger clan can get with little to no effort? To me... That's being a freeloader, riding on the shoulders of others doing the work to reap the benefits of minimal effort. Not saying that's what large clans do, but I'm sure you know there's one or two people in a max clan that can't play everyday, but yet they get to claim the clan rewards even tho they didn't put in the same amount of work that the rest did. Punish a small clan for being small? Nah... I say put a min point requirement on ppl in large clans, that they have to contribute X amount of points to be eligible to claim clan rewards. Now there's a better idea actually... Point requirement per person per clan size. The bigger the clan, the more points required to claim rewards. Opposite for small clans. Now there's a system that could work. 500 pts per person. That way EVERYONE has to make the same amount of effort. Or whatever amount of points per person, times the number of ppl in the clan = total points required to claim rewards. A lot of rambling, and just my opinions, but there it is. Oh, another log for the fire... Legendary lost sectors... There's a bonus for doing a solo run that a fireteam doesn't get. I suppose that's not fair either...
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[quote]I'ma try to word this so nobody gets upset. Lol, right... JUST MY OBSERVATIONS AND OPINIONS... I was on a 7 person clan once, and only 3 of us were regularly active. Daily. Me more so. And we met the requirements for clan XP (I think it was 2k, or 5k a week?). Now I DON'T know if larger clans have that same point requirement, or if it's a different amount. Either way, I know there's not a max member only requirement to be in a clan. As toxic as some players can be, and as toxic as some people are in forums, do you honestly blame anyone for not wanting to be around a large group of people? Plus I've seen some of these 'family' clans with 1 2 and 3 after their name because they're so big, one clan isn't enough. And I've seen these same clans recruiting for more people to join (many reasons why: booting casuals, reforming the clan, or even 'we're better because we're bigger'). I left the small clan for a larger one to see if it went better for me. Nope. Out of 100 ppl in that clan, 7 ppl played, and none in the same fireteam nor doing the same activity. Not saying they're all like that, but it was so in the clan I joined. Anyway, there's that. Not everyone loves Gambit, but it gets played when pinnacle/2X exp comes around. Same with Crucible, IB, etc. It's an incentive to people to partake in, when 'bonuses' are offered. The same bonus from these activities go to everyone equally whether you're in a clan, fireteam, or freelance. So why should small clans be limited when nothing else is in the game? (Besides paying/not paying for season pass etc... But we're not going there... That's a different subject and not the point here). I feel there SHOULD be an XP scaling to an extent BECAUSE there's so many maxed clans out there. 1.0 xp for max clan, but maybe 1.5 xp for less than 50, 2.0 xp for less than 10. Let me make a real world comparison... Employment. If someone has to work a double because someone didn't show up for their shift, should they just get the regular hourly pay, or 'overtime' pay? They have to work more because there's less people, so they get a 'bonus' for doing so. If someone was forced to pull doubles everyday with no 'bonus' to compensate their hard work, are they going to continue to do that? No. So why should a small clan be forced to work harder to get the same things a larger clan can get with little to no effort? To me... That's being a freeloader, riding on the shoulders of others doing the work to reap the benefits of minimal effort. Not saying that's what large clans do, but I'm sure you know there's one or two people in a max clan that can't play everyday, but yet they get to claim the clan rewards even tho they didn't put in the same amount of work that the rest did. Punish a small clan for being small? Nah... I say put a min point requirement on ppl in large clans, that they have to contribute X amount of points to be eligible to claim clan rewards. Now there's a better idea actually... Point requirement per person per clan size. The bigger the clan, the more points required to claim rewards. Opposite for small clans. Now there's a system that could work. 500 pts per person. That way EVERYONE has to make the same amount of effort. Or whatever amount of points per person, times the number of ppl in the clan = total points required to claim rewards. A lot of rambling, and just my opinions, but there it is. Oh, another log for the fire... Legendary lost sectors... There's a bonus for doing a solo run that a fireteam doesn't get. I suppose that's not fair either...[/quote] Very good response and idea. You actually get that people have families and careers. Thank you.
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Edited by Rogue: 2/1/2023 2:09:40 PMI thought very clearly about the language I used, which is why you had to rephrase everything I said and invent motives and speculate about stuff I never implied or said. Right now, every individual is of equal value as far as clan xp is concerned. I believe that is how it should remain. You’re welcome to pretend that somehow wrongs if you please
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[quote]I thought very clearly about the language I used, which is why you had to rephrase everything I had and invent motives and speculate about stuff I never implied or said. Right now, every individual is of equal value as far as clan xp is concerned. I believe that is how I should remain. You’re welcome to pretend that somehow wrongs if you please[/quote] Rephrase? You said punished. Which is clearly a lie. I've quoted every post of yours. I've repeatedly asked you to explain how you're being punished and you've failed to do it every single time. You're being disingenuous at best. I don't think there's anything further to discuss.
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This is the third time I’ve answered you now. If small clans got more xp, that means large clans get less reward for doing more work. It would unfairly advantage small clans. Members of a small clan would get rewarded more so, than members of a larger clan. Rewarding them for misusing the clan system. You might not like my answer, but you can’t just keep pretending I didn’t say it. Every time you’ve gone a rephrased it, put word sun my mouth and jumped to conclusions on my behalf. Just stop. I’m capable of speaking for myself, and this is what I’m saying. Currently, everyone gets the same amount of clan xp as each other, and so it should remain.
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So basically, 10 people should work their a** off to reach the same goal that 100 people can do in a fraction of the time? Ok. I want you to build me a 100,000 sq ft house, using only 3 people, and do it in the same amount of time as a construction company. Oh, and for no extra money too. And then tell me It's exactly right to be expected to do that, in that amount of time, with few ppl to do it, and no incentives or bonus. Horrible analogy, but the point is the same. I'm still trying to figure out how a clan of 10 gets 3 rewards, and a clan of 100 gets 3 rewards, and that's [quote]Giving small clans more for less is the same thing as giving large clans less for more.[/quote] If everyone gets the same amount of XP, how is it even possible for large clans to get less rewards? It's not. Large clans don't have to do extra work to reach that reward tier. Small clans do. You're basically saying that small clans should work X times harder than any large clans to get anywhere. The economy is like that too. Millionaires don't have to do much because they have such a large group of people sharing the workload, than no one really knows what hard work is. They look at the little person with disgust because they get a helping hand when needed (stimulus, assistance programs) because it's so hard to make it without the help. So here's the solution: max clans (millionaires) feel that small clans (little people) should all band together (make large clans) instead of being eligible for assistance (stimulus) because it takes rewards (payroll) away from you? I just don't see it that way. You seem to be under the impression that small clans are wanting to get more rewards, and advance farther faster than any large clans can. And I don't think that's what the OP meant. If that was the case, then Bungie should remove all XP boosting mods from ghosts, remove XP boost for activities on Tuesdays, and remove any leveling up options from EV. Look, I'm not really trying to be toxic, or start an argument. I'm just trying to understand your line of thinking in this. It would be helpful to know if the point requirement is the same, or different, in a clan that's maxed, or small. Meaning: does a clan of 100 need to have 100,000 points per reward, but a clan of 10 only needs 10,000? If you can provide statistics to back your claim of [quote]Giving small clans more for less is the same thing as giving large clans less for more.[/quote] I would appreciate it. I ask because I'm clanless atm and really didn't look at point requirements when I was in clans. So I don't know.
