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Edited by Talia Sendua:
3/22/2023 2:43:59 PM
88
Ok Bungie, can you adjust SMGs or buff auto rifles in range? At this point, SMGs completely make AR irrelevant.
In both PvE and PvP Auto Rifles are literally the unwanted cousin at the party compared to SMGs.
Auto Rifles do only 1 thing good. Having not so high recoil on range than SMGs. They have no extra gimmick like causing more flinch or having lower range fall-off than SMGs. AR have no better perk pool than SMGs. AR also don't have more utility in PvP than SMGs.
At this point you could completely remove AR from PvP and almost no one would notice them being gone. That's how useless they are. The 2 top guns right now both with 5% usage are Ikelos SMG and The Immortal from Trials. That makes 10% for both of those 750RPM SMGs ALONE in the entire PvP sandbox. Just for reference, NTTE is almost 1.8% lower as the 3rd most used gun at the moment.
Meanwhile the first AR used in competitive PvP meta is at 11th place with Quicksilver Storm (1.33% usage overall), the LITERAL Destiny 2 version of a Call of Duty weapon. The 2nd most used AR is Rufus Fury on[b] 29TH PLACE[/b] with a usage of 0.865% overall.
If there is only 1 good exotic auto rifle that is close to the Top 10 and between Top 10 and 29th the majority is other weapons, that means Auto Rifles simply suck.
Why are SMGs so much better than AR? Why, JUST WHY? Are you afraid of another "Gnawing Hunger" Meta? SMGs at this point have a much better range in case utility than auto rifles. And SMGs are meant to have LESS range than auto rifles.
We are right now in a spot where SMGs outclass Auto Rifles in every aspect in PvP and only in very skilled hand and with good positioning an AR user is able to counter the SMG player (or literally any gun).
I play both PvP sandboxes (they are the same, just different player pools). I played long enough on console for the last year and I play long enough on PC to know that SMGs are out of hand and suppress Auto Rifles from being useful in PvP.
That needs to change.
Edit: Also, just for the record. I did mention this SMG problem 3 seasons ago. If Bungie would have acted faster based on feedback like mine, we wouldn't be in this situation.
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Mag size? Range? If anything high rpm ARs make smgs irrelevant. If I want close range power I’d use a sidearm from that range dmg bonus.
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1 ReplyMeanwhile..Suros beats this SMG.. Thats all Ive been using in IB and always top 3 in team. And the other two don't have the immortal. The reason i say many use SMGs in general, is because they do more damage closer in range vs the AR. Not many sit back in Crucible and its mostly up front fights.
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6 RepliesYeah, also nerf the immortal SMG into the ground and bury it. That's all I see in the crucible because everyone and their freaking grandma paid for carries to get it
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2 RepliesHonestly posts like this scream, "I don't have a good AR!" I played a lot of trials this weekend. Grinded Flawless Pool solo for hours Monday for more Adept SMGs and rank ups. I countered the Immortal successfully, repeatedly, with a fusion rifle, a shotgun, ARs like Rufus's from the new raid, an Adept Summoner, a normal Summoner, a Gnawing Hunger.... They're easy to counter if you try. And that includes not holding forward, but actually backing away and maintaining YOUR preferred distance and range. You know they'll be trying to get close. Play accordingly.
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I feel the rangefinder perk needs to be removed on all smg’s, it clearly breaks them. Target lock too, its ridiculous. The perks broke them but the smg range on a few of them are going way further than they should. I feel smg’s need a cap of 20 meters max. The faster they fire and kill, the less range they need. The slower they fire then the more range they need to be viable.
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18 RepliesI'm ready for the Summoner and all ARs to take over for a little bit. As much as I love pulse rifles, I good.
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Skill issue
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How is it, 10 years of the same BS adjusting? How has Bungie not figured balancing and how these weapons work. Same song and dance of incompetence. Bungie logic, throw 💩 on the wall, see what sticks. The most incompetent, no skill, unqualified devs in the industry. Too busy catering to other BS that has nothing to do with making and playing a VIDEO GAME!
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20 RepliesImagine caring about pvp so hard
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4 RepliesDon’t nerf SMGs, just bump the rest up.
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2 RepliesEdited by Kirka soi ja viini virtaa: 3/21/2023 11:25:53 PMYour game: Why is this ttk 0.1s better than others? I can't compete with this difference! My game: https://youtu.be/Mv_qgGkx8po
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16 RepliesEdited by Oogyman: 3/22/2023 6:31:48 AMThey really need to understand the real intended purposes of weapons. Like the average distance of real combat is 200-300 meters, and AR platforms are the standard for that. Something like an SMG is only being used specifically for urban combat or close quarters, those subsonic rounds are supposed to hit like a truck, but an AR can still get the job done pretty well. Its basically a length issue, not power, but they took a bit too much power away. In this game we have mostly close quarters and that's it. There is almost no such thing as long distance engagement, and mid distance is pretty much short range, save for a corridor at times, so yeah they're not as useful as they should be. I feel they do need to be tuned better to be effective at average engagement distances for Destiny maps, but I think the biggest factor in the dismal weapon balance of this game is that alot is just built for shotguns, sidearms, and SMGs, and even sidearms are completely useless. They used to be able to compete some, but that has changed. Bungie needs to be building maps more for all the weapon types. Scouts often feel underwhelming, simply because they fire too slow for the map sizes, for example, but that's hard to balance in close quarters focus PvP, so I cut slack for that. We just need more maps that work for medium to long range weapons so they can actually get good use, and some minor buffs could help too, I feel. If they just built up maps to be less close quarters everywhere, and more mid range focus, I don't doubt balance would be easier to accomplish, and more variety would become more common. They also keep building things like short range scouts, or ranged SMGs, and they just need to stop that all together. Keep the weapons and their perks in their specific talent groups. Scouts are specifically for long range, keep them there. SMGs are mid-close, and they shouldn't be an AR. Just my input, don't want to claim I'm right, but that seems like the glaring issue to me. Oh! What I found surprisingly enough to most, I'm sure, is that the Seventh Seraph Carbine with a good Vorpal roll, or even Swashbuckler, is actually a pretty decent gun for PvP.
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Just seems super weird. You could make a very strong argument that season 18's sandbox was pretty balanced (Yes its Destiny and lol balance), but Bungie had to know releasing Immortal with those perk pools was asking for trouble. They'll probably have to take off Rangefinder, as an available perk. Seems like they need to show upped player count after people were jumping ship after Lightfall's campaign issues. Maybe Im reaching....
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2 RepliesAutos are better than smgs in pve. As for pvp, depends on the weapon which is better.
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Just use a bow
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AR was always irrelevant, they don't want AR to be better than the beloved handcannons in any means.
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I got a gf roll and won’t uses it specifically because td meta. I’m cool with a nerf
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2 RepliesBuff ARs even slightly then watch this same crybaby community b[b]i[/b]tch and moan about the "skillless AR meta" 😭😭😭
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Yeah but Ive noticed that smg supremacy really depends on the map. Open maps dont have smgs everywhere but close range do. High rpm ARs are a pretty good counter imo. Also full auto retrofit sidearms do more dmg at close range with less recoil.
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Edited by FireStriker: 3/22/2023 1:25:56 PMMy two cents on the matter is that SMGs are in a nice place inside PvE content. I wouldnt nerf them at all atm. Its the other weapon types that are under preforming. If you bring smgs down to meet the rest of the weapons primary damage would be lacking. esp after the difficulty bump that was added
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11 RepliesTbh.. SMGs never should've been added. I understand them wanting to bring new weapon types into a sequel, but dàmn. Nothing but problems, with too many types and archetypes.
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They have already came out and said that the mid season balance patch will bring all primary weapons inline with SMGs with out nerfing them. But they also said they will address a few problematic ones in PvP. This is what you love to see, Balance patches independent of PvP and PvE.
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Edited by BOSSNONO254: 3/22/2023 12:46:56 PMI believe Bungie would accidentally buff autos to the point where they’ll be the only thing viable to use. Especially adaptive frames. Because knowing them am I right😅?
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2 RepliesIt's funny because when auto was meta all the swets was crying but it's ok for smg to go beast mode....... 🤔🤔?
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6 RepliesSmgs must be tamed. 20m tops, that's it. For Fs sake, it's common sense. Smgs should shred close range, but not at 25 or 26 metres.
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3 RepliesSmgs need their base zoom stat decreased by 3 and range reduced by 10. Either that or give them the same range as sidearms but with reduced damage to compensate for rof
