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12/17/2023 5:19:42 PM
7
[quote]At first when the season started it seemed alright, but now it's back where it was.
Player population yadayada, I get that.[/quote]
That’s kinda the driving issue in my opinion. Bungie’s system only works when the player base is at its peak.
SBMM in control/rotators makes it unfun for everyone. Newer players don’t improve, higher tier players have to sweat every match, and players in the middle flip back and forth between stomping and being stomped.
Comp needs pure rank-based matchmaking to make it viable, otherwise ranks are meaningless. If you play people out of your rank but are at a similar “skill” you won’t move up or down in a good way. Either the system won’t work (allocating even points no matter what rank players are on each team) or people won’t be able to understand (allocating seemingly random points based on win/loss)
Trials is in a decent spot in my opinion, but the “practice pool” should have the same matchmaking as the control playlist. Offer more protection to players just trying to learn or grind rep.
I think the whole undermining issue is Lobby balancing. It’s still messed up very frequently.
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Lmao if you think fun is in any way related to getting better for new players, you're delusional. New players just wanna actually play the game, not get stomped the monent they get in, the way they used to be during cbmm. Not everyone plays to "get better", most people play for fun.
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You’re making a false dichotomy. Me saying that SBMM needs to be lessened doesn’t mean that newer players are going to be stomped all the time. I have always advocated for outlier protections. But at the same time, I don’t think sacrificing the crucible enjoyers (middle-skill players) for casuals who barely interact with the mode is a good idea. It doesn’t result in getting stomped all the time, but like every 2-3 matches there might be a mid-skill player or two on their team. They’ll probably bottom frag, but it’s not like it’ll be a team of casuals up against a 6-stack of crazy streamers. It’ll more likely be 3 mid-skills and 3 casuals vs 3 mid skills and 3 casuals. And on top of all this, lobby balancing needs some work still
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Low skill players not improving, and mid players flipping between stomping and getting stomps are CBMM issues, not SBMM. And high skill needing to sweat is under the guise that they have to win all of their matches.
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Low skill players don’t improve if they are almost always protected from even mid-skill players. Mid skill players going back and forth is due to a combination of factors including how SBMM works. SBMM tightens the pool at which they want to match you with - as the populations of those pools decreases, the system breaks down. Mid skill players (the smallest group generally) get impacted with this extreme rubber-banding in match skill because it needs to pair them with people to make up for the lack of players. And because lower skill and higher skill can’t mix, this causes matches to be blowouts at either end. I don’t recommend flat out removing SBMM in general playlists, but I think loosening it a little and instead opting for more individualized outlier protections would be a better option. Again, this is all underpinned by player population decreases causing issues. Loose SBMM is generally the best matchmaking for most games
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[quote]Low skill players don’t improve if they are almost always protected from even mid-skill players. Mid skill players going back and forth is due to a combination of factors including how SBMM works. SBMM tightens the pool at which they want to match you with - as the populations of those pools decreases, the system breaks down. Mid skill players (the smallest group generally) get impacted with this extreme rubber-banding in match skill because it needs to pair them with people to make up for the lack of players. And because lower skill and higher skill can’t mix, this causes matches to be blowouts at either end. [/quote] Low skills are more likely to improve when they win some, lose some. Gives them a chance to learn what to change. Getting curb stomped and killed before they even notice what has happened doesn't teach them anything. The mid skill issue, you just explained that the low pop and resulting widening of the pool (becoming less Sb and more CB) is the issue. Which is the problem with CBMM. Lobby balance is porr, so you end up with blow-outs decided by 2-3 players.
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I’m not suggesting pure CBMM. I’m saying that the current system we have falls apart as player populations decline - because the SBMM brackets are too tight. We need SBMM In the form of outlier protections, so low-skill players aren’t playing high-skill. BUT - low skill players need to play people better than them in order for them to improve. They shouldn’t be destroyed constantly - outlier protections to prevent this - but you need some incentive to get better. And for mid-skill you’re taking a reductive view on the match. If we broaden skill ranges (so long as lobby balancing actually works) there should be a mix of players on both sides and not just a match full of low skill and matches full of high skill. SBMM keeping the pools largely separate is what is causing the issue. As player pop goes down, it needs to fill the last spot or two by abruptly broadening its search. This is what leads to the flip-flopping between the stomping and getting stomped.
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By loose skill, it should be like 60%, so the bottom 1% can't match against anyone in the top 39% anything less/more means -blam!- connections and then you're not learning anything other than who has the best connection to the game and thus wins. Honestly, the game would be a ton better if they just lobby balanced with what they have now.
