Lore Aspect, I linked it. (Note: That's what links Praedyth... citations, surprise 😜, I've used in other lore topics proceeding this post... so I linked the lore, but I didn't quote it... Praedyth explains the inception of the Echo program seemingly the chief architect because he had been observing the simulations for a millennia. However, Chioma disagreed with his assessment... and her doubts are seemingly validated by the vapid and disparate motivations of the precursors respective the Traveler. They could not hear it. And as MK. 44 indicates... the Gardener was more focused on worms and insects... and not their cries. Not the Elikisni's cries. Nor our impending wailing). Nope, it's a theory... I don't claim to know anything... And the new lore is kinda vague... but there's still some good takeaways: The lore I quoted from Entelechy [Soul] that lines up with the MK. 44 lore. The Exodus Black is confirmed as an Echo ship... not outright stated, but validated by its inclusion... he was speaking [Cayde] as if he had some sort of business and understanding of the Traveler we were never made privy to. Eido... is suspicious of the precursor accounts. And her interview with Mara Sov is ominous. And then there is the moniker congruity between the precursor "Consensus" and the one lead by the founders (as we know it) of the Vanguard in the last City. That included Laksmi... a copy of Maya Sundaresh. And the Speaker who was confirmed ignorant... But most importantly Zavala... and wait... Lysander (also alluded to in the new lore & in the vector lore) who maybe attempted the coup because they suspected manipulation and corruption of the Vanguard. We don't know why Lysander rebelled. So, all that... Entelechy [Soul], Lore Aspect, Cayde's lore, Mk 44 Stand Asides... the collector's edition clue... That's where the "theory" comes from. My knowledge of the philosophical conceit of "nihilism" and its direct relation to the term "apodictic". Both are themes in the new Collector's edition lore.

What about lore Aspect? You aren’t citing anything specific just a whole book in general, so that’s not explaining or actually citing anything to explain the validity of your claim. Nor is your misrepresentation of what I said fooling anyone. What I said is it is the retcon, as the update that replaces the old as the new official. And no, 44 doesn’t prove anything. The phrase cries for help being repeated doesn’t prove anything. Beyond the fact that the Traveler ignores those dying, which is a openly stated fact. Not a mystery. That’s again you using the position that simple word being used twice means you can claim relation via your analysis methodology. Which you framing the discussion in a way that so that you can be factually wrong about the story and it’s direction but correct from the comparative perspective, because it merely requires something as simple as a repeated word to give validity. 🤣

Keyword... Keystone... Soul [Entelechy]. The new lore is an exposition of Eido's research respective the Collapse, Witness [precursors], and the Echo program. The lore is a carrot using all those things to direct us to the Consensus of the Vanguard... Lysander's true motivations... Zavala... and Cayde. Cayde is the keystone character of the franchise... he chose to be good, he chose to be bad... he's seen both sides. The reason why the title Keyword is Praedyth, is the echo program doesn't exist without Soteria... We will find a version of SiVA or a fragment of Soteria amongst the wreckage of the Exodus Black... is my theory. And I think, it is my theory, that Cayde's mission was to destroy a faction rooted in Nihilism, though hidden... for the record, I don't think Zavala knows. By assassinating the leader of the corrupt Vanguard Consensus. Or after the past few seasons do you still believe the Vanguard never erred? We were manipulated by Mara Sov to wipe out the Amhakara. Xivu said Savathun manipulated the Vanguard conflicts to fuel the tribute. And then there's the striking revelation often ignored because of Zavala's apodictic piety to the Vanguard that he is Awoken. And Brother Vance was a mole for Mara. And Zavala was why the Vanguard joined Mara in the Great Hunt. He's been the leader of the Vanguard through all those manipulated conflicts I mentioned. He led the Vanguard through all of its sins. 😇 👍💠

Yawn, more spin of the foil

[quote]The Exodus Black [b]is confirmed[/b] as an Echo ship... [u]not outright stated[/u], but validated by its inclusion... he was speaking [Cayde] as if he had some sort of business and understanding of the Traveler we were never made privy to. But most importantly Zavala... and wait... [b]Lysander (also alluded to in the new lore & in the vector lore) who maybe attempted the coup because they suspected manipulation and corruption of the Vanguard. [/b] [u]We don't know why Lysander rebelled[/u].[/quote] Or you’re just making stuff up. Which you admit right there. Because it’s “just a theory” 🤣 And you didn’t explain anything of the inconsistencies I mentioned. And no, because a word you’re familiar with was used doesn’t mean you can just make up stuff and be right. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No, Lasombra. You just doooon’t get it! They used the word “apodictic” and since he suddenly has a specific hard-on for that word, it means that it’s nebulously connected to what he’s talking about! Duh! Totally! HAHAHAH!!

Because you don't understand why that word is so important. Apodictic means "absolute" And the motivations and faction that won out per Eido's account of the precursor Consensus were the Nihilists. Who were looking for an "apodictic" truth. I know you don't get why that contradiction is important 😜.

Or it's a theory with the corroborations I cited. I guess "technically" we don't know who that is on Exodus Black either, right? Even though they talk like Cayde, use his verbal cadences. Not everything needs to be literally stated outright for it to be true. I saw your implied dismissal of the new lore as "retcon" unfortunately Mk. 44's lore disputes that as it was released in season 8... Much like the dispute I had with the poster about Cayde - we know enough about Clovis to know why he kept resetting Cayde and his other Exos. We know the kid Cayde caught trying to sneak into Braytech was probably killed. Though never [u]explicitly stated[/u] and Cayde is very vague on the details... Did Cayde kill the kid, or was catching him the catalyst for their death? We don't know. We do know Cayde had nightmares about it until he died, through every reset fragments of that memory stuck with him. So, it doesn't have to state literally that Cayde was an assassin for Clovis... Because he was his chief security officer. Because Clovis kept wiping Cayde's memory to keep him in check. So yeah, it's a "theory" but there's validation and corroboration for its conceits in the lore. To add: Do you think Eido is compiling random accounts in "Soul"? 😉 No, all of it is related... her discovery [royal - used as a legal term] is rooted in empirical protocols and principles of comparative analysis. That's why it's [u][b]confirmed[/b][/u] that the [b]Exodus Black [u]WAS[/u][/b] an [b]Echo Protocol ship[/b] by virtue of its inclusion in Eido's research of the collapse, the witness, and the Echo program. That's what Entelechy is... Eido's research in exposition. Also there's a better transcription now for the lore created in google docs than the original link I provided that Hesh gave you: [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UrWkA-28s02Hxtogq0XhoOo-tDNCM_O4IRYahiEddVk/edit]Soul[/url]