I have made a few post about this and I feel like it's starting to gain some traction. This is for Bungies eye, and I'm sure there's a few people out there who will have something negative to say. Be constructive if you have input.
I love destiny. I have played it since day one Vanilla D1, I've completed every raid, dungeon, pantheon, grandmaster and the majority of Master content. I'm unbroken, and gone flawless many times. I have put tens of thousands of hours into this game. My voice means something to this community whether anyone knows who.i am or not. I am 100% one of the the oldest and most seasoned Destiny players that remain. Nobody knows me and that's fine. I never aspired to be anything more than an average player.
There are a large group of players like me who are hurting. Watching the game we've loved to play for 10 years get worse and worse over the years. The player count is dwindling and the game is no longer fun to play.
I'm going to speak from my point of view only. It may not align with everyone's view so I will not speak for them.
The number 1 issue i have with the game right now is it is too hard and too complicated for the average player and even for some hardcore players. Raids are a prime example of this. Raids in Destiny 1 were straight forward, and didnt require overlapping communications and overly complicated mechanics with unrealistic time limits. They were still challenging enough but simple enough the understand. Your build and light level mattered more than knowing unnecessarily complicated mechanics. I would run teaching raids everyday and loved taking new players through raids. In D2 the raids have become so complicated and require to much communication to do that average players will never be able to learn or reliably ay them. I completed the new raid and I still cant tell you how I did it. Trying to take new people through raids in d2 is nearly impossible to do in one session. People don't want to spend 6-7 hours getting frustrated trying to learn how to play. Which is also why the D2 community is far more toxic than the D1. KWTD should not be a thing. Raids are though most fun content in the game and more than the majority of your players aren't playing them because they of the above issues.
On the topic of being too hard, ive noticed over the years, that time limits are being used more and more often, which doesn't bother me, but most people play this game casually. Damage to the player has become outrageous. There are so many times where I'm dead instantly in harder content. Not everything needs to one shot a guardian. An enemy should not be fast, hit hard aaaaand have a ton of health. That is a huge taboo in game making.
These issues seem to add up to the last point I'm going to make. Our time is not respected. Wether it's repeating the same exotic mission 10 times for the episode quest line or making content diluted and longer, or so hard and complicated that it takes forever to play, people are starting to catch on to the fact that you are more concerned with controlling the amount of time we spend playing than delivering the best experience possible for the average player. Our time is constantly being nickle and aimed. It seems like you guys are asking yourselves, how can we waste as much time as possible and limit the amount of content we need to deliver.
Wrapping this up, I just want to say for the most part I love hard content, I love destiny and I consider myself a hardcore loyalist. But I have to admit we can no longer cater to the hardcore player. If we want to game to be successful, it has to be accessible to all players at all levels, meaning targeting the casual player. Content should be fun, accessible and completable in a timely manner. I would rather run a raid 4 times in a night than spend an entire night and not complete it once.
That's all I have, I hope this at least gets read. I miss having fun in this game. I miss playing all my favorite content. Be nice and be constructive if you have an opinion.
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You would have to be blind to miss all the blueberries struggling through content, and it's not hard to find them either. Seriously, put on enough low level weapons and armor to drop to around 1970 and jump into the Advanced tier of Nightfall. (You can swap to your normal loadout when you are flying into the location.) Those players routinely will have very little experience with the endgame, and probably won't have anti-champion weapons either. Several times I loaded in after one or more left the Nightfall and the remainder were left in a losing battle with a single Antibarrier champion for 5-10 minutes into the clock. The bottom end needs to be easier, and the top end needs to be harder. Raising the floor and lowering the ceiling was one of the worst decisions that Bungie made in Lightfall, and where I believe the fall from grace started.
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You had me until the “this game is too hard” stuff. The current game is so casual and easy. Other than contest content, there’s not much that an average skilled player with a proper build can’t just walk through with ease. It would be hard to believe that you were a D1 player if you think the current game is hard.
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Edited by AmidVillains: 1/29/2025 8:07:25 PM[quote]I have put tens of thousands of hours into this game.[/quote] No, you have 3,077 hours, Destiny 1 and 2 combined. https://wastedondestiny.com/4611686018435113792 [quote]I've completed every raid, dungeon, pantheon, grandmaster and the majority of Master content.[/quote] Of 15 Raids, 10 you've done only 5 or less times, and have a Master clear on only 2 of the 6. Of 9 Dungeons, 4 you've done only 5 or less times, and have a Master clear on only 2 of the 6. Of the 31 GM's, you've done less than half at 12. https://gm.report/4611686018435113792 https://raid.report/ps/4611686018435113792 https://dungeon.report/ps/4611686018435113792 [quote] I consider myself a hardcore loyalist.[/quote] Say what? 0 conqueror Guilds, 0 Raid seals, 0 Dungeon seals. It's not that I even disagree with your post. I agree that the game needs to be more attractive to stay populated and that difficulty will end up pushing people away if they can't strike a balance with what they put out. It's perfectly fine to have an opinion, and it's perfectly fine to express it here. But don't lie, lying is tacky and makes you less credible. Some paragraph separation would be nice too. Edit: Your PVP seems a bit suspect as well. An overall 1.18 with a 47-ish win percentage, performing at a 1.69 and a 81% win rate in Trials overall. In fact, over the last 5 seasons, comparing your 2 most played modes (IB and Trials) you appear to perform nearly twice as good in Trials as you do in IB.
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Long post guarantee bungie won't read. Those in charge look at stats more than the forums
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[quote]I have made a few post about this and I feel like it's starting to gain some traction. This is for Bungies eye, and I'm sure there's a few people out there who will have something negative to say. Be constructive if you have input. I love destiny. I have played it since day one Vanilla D1, I've completed every raid, dungeon, pantheon, grandmaster and the majority of Master content. I'm unbroken, and gone flawless many times. I have put tens of thousands of hours into this game. My voice means something to this community whether anyone knows who.i am or not. I am 100% one of the the oldest and most seasoned Destiny players that remain. Nobody knows me and that's fine. I never aspired to be anything more than an average player. There are a large group of players like me who are hurting. Watching the game we've loved to play for 10 years get worse and worse over the years. The player count is dwindling and the game is no longer fun to play. I'm going to speak from my point of view only. It may not align with everyone's view so I will not speak for them. The number 1 issue i have with the game right now is it is too hard and too complicated for the average player and even for some hardcore players. Raids are a prime example of this. Raids in Destiny 1 were straight forward, and didnt require overlapping communications and overly complicated mechanics with unrealistic time limits. They were still challenging enough but simple enough the understand. Your build and light level mattered more than knowing unnecessarily complicated mechanics. I would run teaching raids everyday and loved taking new players through raids. In D2 the raids have become so complicated and require to much communication to do that average players will never be able to learn or reliably ay them. I completed the new raid and I still cant tell you how I did it. Trying to take new people through raids in d2 is nearly impossible to do in one session. People don't want to spend 6-7 hours getting frustrated trying to learn how to play. Which is also why the D2 community is far more toxic than the D1. KWTD should not be a thing. Raids are though most fun content in the game and more than the majority of your players aren't playing them because they of the above issues. On the topic of being too hard, ive noticed over the years, that time limits are being used more and more often, which doesn't bother me, but most people play this game casually. Damage to the player has become outrageous. There are so many times where I'm dead instantly in harder content. Not everything needs to one shot a guardian. An enemy should not be fast, hit hard aaaaand have a ton of health. That is a huge taboo in game making. These issues seem to add up to the last point I'm going to make. Our time is not respected. Wether it's repeating the same exotic mission 10 times for the episode quest line or making content diluted and longer, or so hard and complicated that it takes forever to play, people are starting to catch on to the fact that you are more concerned with controlling the amount of time we spend playing than delivering the best experience possible for the average player. Our time is constantly being nickle and aimed. It seems like you guys are asking yourselves, how can we waste as much time as possible and limit the amount of content we need to deliver. Wrapping this up, I just want to say for the most part I love hard content, I love destiny and I consider myself a hardcore loyalist. But I have to admit we can no longer cater to the hardcore player. If we want to game to be successful, it has to be accessible to all players at all levels, meaning targeting the casual player. Content should be fun, accessible and completable in a timely manner. I would rather run a raid 4 times in a night than spend an entire night and not complete it once. That's all I have, I hope this at least gets read. I miss having fun in this game. I miss playing all my favorite content. Be nice and be constructive if you have an opinion.[/quote] Paragraphs. Please, for the love of God. Use paragraphs.
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Well said, and I agree the time and mechanics of dungeon and raid is a big blocker for me, I rarely have enough time to commit to such activities on top of watching tutorials…
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Edited by Magiscene: 1/29/2025 4:16:03 AMI’ve been saying this for a long time. Hard content comes at a huge cost to replay ability and accessibility. Hard content these days is just a slog, lfg building takes as long as the activity and is such a chore, and when people get their loot they abandon the activity. SE every lfg post is literally kwtd or kick. People will say oh it’s easy but they don’t realize what’s ez for them is not ez for everyone else. Vespers host contest final boss was a -blam!- show because of how chaotic the dmg phase due to the lighting and high health pool the boss had. Aka not fun I like when I can actually catch my breath during dmg phases. Lots of people didn’t enjoy it and I would not be surprised if doctrine has a lot less people participating in the race. Im sure sundered doctrine will have the same issue vespers had with a bs mechanic like the lightning in vespers. I’m going to give doctrine contest a chance but if it suffers the same issue vespers had then ill never touch a contest dungeon again. SE ruined contest raids for me. Hard content I used to look forward too but now it’s either focused on combat endurance or a bs mechanic that isn’t fair. I just dread the experience now because it isn’t fun.
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Honestly, the biggest issue with the game is that there are too many issues with the game. Meaning that it's impossible for the community, and by extent the devs, to focus on one particular issue to fix. You've covered three issues currently in the game. I agree those are issues that need to be resolved, they're only scratching the surface of all the issues. And while you're pushing for things like difficulty and respecting time investment, others will push for other things to get resolved.
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SE was too mechanics heavy, VH dungeon last boss was garbage as well… I have done both the raid and dungeon as well but had to leave many many fireteams cuz of players not being good enuf to handle the mechanics (I did not want to waste my time and I am not a sherpa) .. I had to depend on YouTube guides to learn the raid/dungeon beforehand and dive into it. If you haven’t watched any tutorials of the SE raid, it’s nearly impossible to complete it going blind…
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No. Raids must always be designed for streamers and the raid races first and foremost. The rest of us are expected to fund the production of the content by paying triple A money for it each year then simply watch the raid on twitch. The best thing is even if we watch, the streamers now turn off their screen so we can't even see the gameplay! Now the dungeons are going the same way.
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[quote] The number 1 issue i have with the game right now is it is too hard and too complicated for the average player and even for some hardcore players. Raids are a prime example of this.[/quote] No they arent. I took a group of 12yr olds through their first raid ever. I dont mean carried either. I mean there were squeakers galore and they had to learn their role and so their job. If I can teach literal children how to raid, and get them their first raid exotic and they come back and message me about how awesome it was, then no, raiding isn't too hard or complicated. People are just lazy or dumb. I'm tilted toward dumb. I was in GoS being sherpad after a long hiatus from d2 years ago and the sherpa would swear up and down the banks in the final boss room were bugged. The sherpa didn't realize the active banks move positions after each rotation even though they LIGHT UP WHEN ACTIVE. Like you can't make it any more clear than putting a giant beacon that says "HEY BANK HERE"
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Find and join good (friendly!) clan. I have been in same very small clan for three years now and it was the best thing that happened in my gaming. I have got everything I want to get done in this clan. But if you don’t want to interact with other people, you are kind of screwed. I totally understand LFG frustration as I’ve been there.. I haven’t used LFG for three years now. That’s what a good friendly clan can offer you.
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Well damn that is one big wall of text, I wouldn't blame bungie if they don't read it. I sure don't want to.
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Holy wall of text
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I can't tell if it's rampant ingenuity or nostalgia baiting but my goodness. The raids in this game, on the whole, aren't any more complicated than D1 raids. SE is an exception I'll grant you, but one exception doesn't make the rule. D2 also brought us baby raids like RoN and Leviathan. Pretending your build mattered more in D1 is wild given the diversity we have now. All you need in D1 was damage supers and a Ghorn for like 90% of the game lol. Maybe a self-res if you were really worried about dying. Pretending the community is any worse is also odd, especially citing KWTD, which was around in D1, and lest we forget MUST HAVE GHORN. You can't type out this wholepost and then say you love hard content. You very evidently do not. It's okay to have that position. I'm not trying to dunk on you for not liking hard content, but having the opinions you have and then saying you like hard content is just blatant hypocrisy. The real death of this game is when we dumb it down so everyone can do everything.
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Bungie: TLDR, we don’t check our forums for feedback, only Reddit and Streamer call ins. Oh and checkout Eververse.
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My guy… You spent all that time typing out your thoughts. Put some spacing in between your thoughts so it’s not a wad of sweaty text.