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5/17/2025 5:15:11 PM
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Leopa

The current issue with Trials (and PvP as a whole): loot and players

Gonna start by saying the obvious and what is the current player sentiment around the entire PvP before moving on and talkink about Trials: - [b]Matches don't feel fair:[/b] unbalanced matchmaking across teams that may include teams with 1 good player + 5 that aren't that great vs 1-2 good players + Average but helpful teammates; or the worse: matches starting with less players that expected, which results in awkard matches specially if the map is big enough like Cathedral of Dusk, and most of the time: the losing team don't get any reinforcement over the entire match and/or get less players compared to the other team (example: starting a game as 4v4, finishing a game with 5v6). I can't relate how many times I've heard the following: [i]if I am on the top of the scoreboard, then I know I don't have any chance with my team.[/i] - [b]Matchmaking connections are still an issue[/b]: either by playing Rank Based, Outlier Protection or Open Skill, most of the time there is at least 1 guy in the match that is teleporting due to connection issues, that it is oftenly impossible to track with our guns or skill, and killing them has a delayed effect which also stop some streak perks to work properly or to activate correctly (example: Kill Clip, Rampage, etc.) - [b]There is no incentive to keep playing a match or game mode once you get the stuff you want[/b]: For the average player, Competitive can be sumed up as: log in, play 3 matches for the weapon, never come back until next week. While the emblem is an incentive for a niche group of excellent players, it does nothing to convince players to keep on the game mode. Similarly, the trend of quitting matches keeps going around, and, while the leavers can be punished, the players inside a match on a losing side have to accept their fate and get kicked -blam!- so hard and get nothing in return for it, which also create more negative sentiment over PvP. While that wasn't the whole list, those are the main problems right now besides of the obvious one: cheaters. And while balance patches are also needed to be fast and efficient, at this point many of us have given up on the balance of the game (you can already see right now: Redrix Estoc keeps as the #1 weapon and Void Hunter as the #1 subclass played in this Trials Weekend, and we are yet on Saturday but the differences of usage between others are abyssmal) : we want the games to be fun despite the meta. Moving to Trials of Osiris, the main issue of Trials is the loot (Mid weapons or not interesting ones, and how psychology affects on due to how the system is planted), player population, and the previous player sentiment around the game, which also can be affected by the current map in rotation. - Players already have their favorite maps. If the featured map is not one of the favorites, then the only incentive is the loot. On the other hand, if the map is a fan favorite but the loot isn't great, then some players will give it a chance just for playing in their favorite map. - [i]Not all the loot of Trials of Osiris is interesting enough[/i]: while there are some bangers (like Exalted Truth), some of the other weapons don't feel special enough or worth the grind, either by perk pool, frame, or if by any chance there is another weapon that fits the same role that it is more easier to earn: people won't get interested enough to play Trials. - [b]Psychology over loot grind:[/b] I can understand that Trials needs to keep any sort of prestige when we talk about the Lighthouse, and I don't know anyone who hates the idea of getting into the Lighthouse for loot just for winning 7 matches regardless of loses. However, I do still think that having % drop rate based on weekly streak is an awful design. While I can understand the idea of promoting excellence, it is also a double-edged sword. Despite reasons, most of the players play for loot, and, in a game that currently doesn't respect your time invested over a session, if you tell them that the only way to get more loot is by having to go flawless, then they will try to do so. Reality is: not everyone is capable of doing so, and those who are unaware of what they can't possibly achieve (yet, perhaps), this only aggravates the issue. I am not saying this is 100% true for every player, but you should consider that there are players that might think like that: [i]if I can't go flawless then I can't farm my weapons efficiently[/i]. Then, realizing that a flawless card is almost impossible for them (either by them or things that they can't control that may happen in a match), this will feed up more negativity towards the game mode, which will drive them away eventually. - [b]Trials of Osiris needs more players:[/b] all of the issues described below are factors that may drive players away from the game mode. In reality, the entire game needs more players, but that is another big issue that hasn't been solved for years and we desperately need players so the core activities like PvP have any sort of "magic": the feeling that every match is different than the last one, and the illusion of not knowing what to expect or fight in the next game. Right now: playing against the same team over and over the weekend, and the next weekends, and the next ones; is something that is killing the replayability: all matches feel the same, all results feel the same, and it is easy to expect the income of the match which can feed more negative sentiment if by the start you know that you will get stomped if you already know who you are playing against and who are you playing with. Overall: make PvP great again: make it fun, make it appealing, make it so players can spend their entire time on the most ridiculous game mode and not even care about it because they feel that it is worth of their time.

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  • Great post. To attract more players, I would like to see something like a weapon perk reroll engram that would drop on a 7-win passage and could be used to reroll either the barrel, magazine, masterwork or one of the two perk columns on a trials weapon that you already have. This could still be rng i.e. you could not handpick what you want, but it would be guaranteed to not give you what you already have. Players could then farm these engrams as a means of getting the 5/5 roll that they want.

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  • I appreciate this post. Increasing the player count is a task thats a hard hill to climb bc it involes taking a few hits alone the way to their pride and to admit their flaws. Major Businesses just don't do that nowadays bc they know we will still line their pockets with with $$ for mediocre products. PvE or future games like Marathon would have fall in order to go back to the status quo and even though I hope changes can happen without that, its unlikely.

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    • They need to remove the dumb zone.

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    • Edited by Westbrook: 5/18/2025 10:05:16 PM
      It's the matchmaking. Like my most recent trials game for example WHY, in the blue hell is one of my teammates a 0.2 kd player who only has ONE TRIALS WIN. And my other teammate is 9/15 on the weekend... Why? Like???? It's everytime without fail, I will go on a 2 game winstreak and then my third game is the most unwinnable game achievable. It's not to say I don't have my bad games, I absolutely do. But I'm getting career trials terrorists on my teams. There's zero defense for putting a brand new freshie trials player onto my team.

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      • Balancing and the feeling of forced losses is what I hate… Quickplay feels like the Olympics most games. Think the falling population plays a big part in it

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      • Double carry or lose

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      • I really wish they didn't force armour behind the 7 win chest and challenges. Seems kind of silly when weapons are the main attraction

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      • imagine finding matches

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        • I just can’t fathom just accepting that you can’t go flawless… put in the work and the effort and get better at the game

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          • I get the idea of needing better loot because it's a looter shooter. But if a game constantly needs better loot. They need to devalue your current loot. Ethier by nerfs or making the new loot obviously better. That's the problem. Neither of those ideas are actually good. Especially if the game is older. If you need good loot every season to keep the playlist alive. It probably has a deeper issue. Not saying I know of a fix. Fun is subjective.

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            • Edited by Stari: 5/19/2025 4:40:51 PM
              I'm 52 years old and an average player. Since the new system I go to The Lighthouse every week, easily. Yesterday I got some good loot almost every win after 7 wins. Normally i'm complaining on this forum, but Trials feels the Most Fair EVER, for me. Untill I was getting drunk and tired. EDIT: Today Trials is unplayable, again.

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              • Edited by Magiscene: 5/18/2025 1:58:37 PM
                The main problem (besides the one sided matchmaking) is the “make it fun” part. Bungie has to pick an audience in PvP to please and upset the rest. Which can increase or decrease the population based on the ways Bungie tweaks stuff, which seems to be anything these days as people keep calling for constant PvP nerfs. Take me for example I used to love PvP but when they neutered ability uptime and special ammo I resorted to only playing when the loot is worth it. Primary only gunplay is boring imo, and I miss being able to snipe reliably but flinch is unbearable. Games these days are just full of stagnant gameplay with each team waiting for the other to make a move yet both teams are too scared to make a move out of fear of getting team shot. Unless you get that one guy who doesn’t care and just solo rushes.

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              • You people call it PVP but it aint as it is all about internet connection these days so dont blame other players just blame Bungie with the lag they create

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              • Edited by Zodleon: 5/17/2025 8:35:09 PM
                I'll address two main points, fairness, and make pvp great again and it's gonna be kinda long as its an old argument in general that's been hashed out over and over in destiny and other places ------------------------------------- Trials matches aren't fair in the sense that the sides are even, its fair in the sense that in theory you have all the same options as the opponents (assuming you put the work in to get them), weapons, armor, exotics, abilities and the same matchmaking which is random with random teams. It's the mode where your personal skill matters the most because the environment does not favor one side more than the other inherently. The argument is similar to equity vs equality. The difference of treating everyone equally or attempting to make everyone equal with the system. Comp is an equity game mode where it attempts to make players equal by getting them to a specific rank where they are "equal" to the others on that rank. To give a real-world example of something that trials resembles is an open-skill chess tournament, anyone can join grandmaster or novice, and you're all playing the same game, with the same timers, and the same pieces to start, that's a fair playing field, but it's not an even one dispite that. Neither of these are inherently right, but they are fundamentally incompatible with some setups, for example, trials win streak-based mode is incompatible with sbmm because you simply shouldn't be going on streaks that long in sbmm. The point: that's a lot of words to say trials is fair, in the sense that it treats everyone equally and what you bring to the table is the X factor. The better you are personally compared to literally every other player in the mode the better you do. ------------------------------- separation for ease of reading As for making pvp great again. Pvp is probably about as good as its ever been minus some outlier weapons, and a few abilities with too much uptime. They've made good changes that encourage primary use, and limit just how wide the skill gap is likely to be in 6s, but it will never ever feel the same as it used to without an insane influx of players, enough to dilute and make long time players the minority, the game isn’t new and skill creep is extremely set in. Thats just not happening we as a community act and play differently than we did a year ago, or two years ago, to my disappointment as well the likelihood of it feeling like it used is pretty much 0, we arent the same and neither is the bingie making the game. It sucks but it is what it is.

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                • I agree. The mode itself should be fun to play with some interesting gameplay

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