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8/12/2013 9:37:01 AM
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why is it when weed is brought up, all scientific studies are false?

I seem to be noticing this all to often. It seems like people choose to use science when it seems to fit their god damned agenda and it pisses me off. When it comes to atheism you all turn into masters of in the field of physics, chemistry, and biology...which isn't a [i]bad[/i] thing! But once somebody is arguing about the negative effects of marijuana on the human body people for the drug say shit like "oh that study is biased!", "that study was bad", "yeah those guys had an agenda". You guys sound as ignorant as a scientifically illiterate Christian saying the earth is 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils are some lie conjured by the Devil. We don't need another damn drug making the general population even more stupid. Just think about how dumb the average person is, and realize that half of us are dumber than THAT. How many weedheads and drug addicts do you think EVER become a productive person in society? Are there any top tier scientist or engineer that use drugs? I don't think so. I like it when we use freedom for freedom of upward mobility, not freedom for stupidity and degenerative behavior. tl;dr: potheads denouncing science when it doesn't suit them piss me off.

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  • Weed and pot just makes everyone I know act stupid and do stupid shit. Therefore, that's how I view the public that supports the drug.

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    • >opinions

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      • Edited by die wily: 8/12/2013 9:58:32 AM
        [quote]Just think about how dumb the average person is, and realize that half of us are dumber than THAT.[/quote]Nice Carlin quote. You know he was a user of several drugs, right? He's been quoted as saying that marijuana helped him write a ton of his material. [quote]Are there any top tier scientist or engineer that use drugs?[/quote]I know Sagan, Feynman, and Freud were all users. Also, the current US president admited to smoking weed when he was younger.

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        • Edited by ClusiveC: 8/13/2013 3:27:10 AM
          I don't need to rely on a crutch, so no marijuana, or any other shit for me. Strait edge, in other words.

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        • [url=http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-use-more-drugs]relevant[/url] ;)

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        • OP, remember the alchohol prohibition in the 20s in America? Remember how awful that was? After something like that, how can you say something should be illegal/banned when it clearly causes much more trouble than if it were legal?

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          • I find it funny that most of the people that attack "the green" stand behind alcohol being legal when it is much more dangerous for your body and much more dangerous when used in everyday activities.

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            • The lifestyle and choices made by people who typically consume pot are not those usually consistent with those of a top tier scientist or engineer. With the stigma and laws against pot combined with this, not many productive studies of the benefits of pot are out there. If you don't have an ailment that requires marijuana as a treatment, why take it? If you use it as a coping mechanism for problems in your daily life or an escape from reality to "feel good," then try to see a psychologist and get legitimate medical treatment for your issues. I'm tired of seeing people fall to pieces after starting to smoke pot to cope with mania/depression/bipolar-disorders/schizophrenia.

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              • Awesome way to try to win an argument - imply you're right about something, and then try to make another argument that is contingent on us accepting that your implication was correct. As far as I know, there are plenty of studies that make it clear that marijuana has very little negative effects on the lungs - in some cases actually showing positive effects. As far as I know, it is still the case that the idiot conservatives are the ones denying science.

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                • While in terms of creationist arguments and whatnot, science generally blows them out of the water (pl0x don't kill me) because there are no valid scientific papers supporting their views... For marijuana, right now there seems to be studies saying that it is harmful, and studies showing that it is not. Only time and better research techniques will determine which is right.

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                  • [quote]. Just think about how dumb the average person is, and realize that half of us are dumber than THAT.[/quote] that is a scary thought. Guessing you have seen George Carlin before?

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                  • That moment where you are positive shit will go down

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                  • Inb4parodythreads

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                  • Lolk

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                    OP is brainwashed by the 1940's lumber industry. *sigh* I'm tired of the ridiculous correlation = causation fallacy that anti-marijuana crowds use. Weed doesn't create stoners, stoners just smoke weed. What's not to get about this?

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                    • Edited by edableshoe: 8/13/2013 2:57:32 AM
                      Mr. X by Carl Sagan This account was written in 1969 for publication in Marihuana Reconsidered (1971). Sagan was in his mid-thirties at that time. He continued to use cannabis for the rest of his life. It all began about ten years ago. I had reached a considerably more relaxed period in my life – a time when I had come to feel that there was more to living than science, a time of awakening of my social consciousness and amiability, a time when I was open to new experiences. I had become friendly with a group of people who occasionally smoked cannabis, irregularly, but with evident pleasure. Initially I was unwilling to partake, but the apparent euphoria that cannabis produced and the fact that there was no physiological addiction to the plant eventually persuaded me to try. My initial experiences were entirely disappointing; there was no effect at all, and I began to entertain a variety of hypotheses about cannabis being a placebo which worked by expectation and hyperventilation rather than by chemistry. After about five or six unsuccessful attempts, however, it happened. I was lying on my back in a friend’s living room idly examining the pattern of shadows on the ceiling cast by a potted plant (not cannabis!). I suddenly realized that I was examining an intricately detailed miniature Volkswagen, distinctly outlined by the shadows. I was very skeptical at this perception, and tried to find inconsistencies between Volkswagens and what I viewed on the ceiling. But it was all there, down to hubcaps, license plate, chrome, and even the small handle used for opening the trunk. When I closed my eyes, I was stunned to find that there was a movie going on the inside of my eyelids. Flash . . . a simple country scene with red farmhouse, a blue sky, white clouds, yellow path meandering over green hills to the horizon. . . Flash . . . same scene, orange house, brown sky, red clouds, yellow path, violet fields . . . Flash . . . Flash . . . Flash. The flashes came about once a heartbeat. Each flash brought the same simple scene into view, but each time with a different set of colors . . . exquisitely deep hues, and astonishingly harmonious in their juxtaposition. Since then I have smoked occasionally and enjoyed it thoroughly. It amplifies torpid sensibilities and produces what to me are even more interesting effects, as I will explain shortly. I can remember another early visual experience with cannabis, in which I viewed a candle flame and discovered in the heart of the flame, standing with magnificent indifference, the black-hatted and -cloaked Spanish gentleman who appears on the label of the Sandeman sherry bottle. Looking at fires when high, by the way, especially through one of those prism kaleidoscopes which image their surroundings, is an extraordinarily moving and beautiful experience. I want to explain that at no time did I think these things ‘really’ were out there. I knew there was no Volkswagen on the ceiling and there was no Sandeman salamander man in the flame. I don’t feel any contradiction in these experiences. There’s a part of me making, creating the perceptions which in everyday life would be bizarre; there’s another part of me which is a kind of observer. About half of the pleasure comes from the observer-part appreciating the work of the creator-part. I smile, or sometimes even laugh out loud at the pictures on the insides of my eyelids. In this sense, I suppose cannabis is psychotomimetic, but I find none of the panic or terror that accompanies some psychoses. Possibly this is because I know it’s my own trip, and that I can come down rapidly any time I want to. While my early perceptions were all visual, and curiously lacking in images of human beings, both of these items have changed over the intervening years. I find that today a single joint is enough to get me high. I test whether I’m high by closing my eyes and looking for the flashes. They come long before there are any alterations in my visual or other perceptions. I would guess this is a signal-to-noise problem, the visual noise level being very low with my eyes closed. Another interesting information-theoretical aspects is the prevalence – at least in my flashed images – of cartoons: just the outlines of figures, caricatures, not photographs. I think this is simply a matter of information compression; it would be impossible to grasp the total content of an image with the information content of an ordinary photograph, say 108 bits, in the fraction of a second which a flash occupies. And the flash experience is designed, if I may use that word, for instant appreciation. The artist and viewer are one. This is not to say that the images are not marvelously detailed and complex. I recently had an image in which two people were talking, and the words they were saying would form and disappear in yellow above their heads, at about a sentence per heartbeat. In this way it was possible to follow the conversation. At the same time an occasional word would appear in red letters among the yellows above their heads, perfectly in context with the conversation; but if one remembered these red words, they would enunciate a quite different set of statements, penetratingly critical of the conversation. The entire image set which I’ve outlined here, with I would say at least 100 yellow words and something like 10 red words, occurred in something under a minute. The cannabis experience has greatly improved my appreciation for art, a subject which I had never much appreciated before. The understanding of the intent of the artist which I can achieve when high sometimes carries over to when I’m down. This is one of many human frontiers which cannabis has helped me traverse. There also have been some art-related insights – I don’t know whether they are true or false, but they were fun to formulate. For example, I have spent some time high looking at the work of the Belgian surrealist Yves Tanguey. Some years later, I emerged from a long swim in the Caribbean and sank exhausted onto a beach formed from the erosion of a nearby coral reef. In idly examining the arcuate pastel-colored coral fragments which made up the beach, I saw before me a vast Tanguey painting. Perhaps Tanguey visited such a beach in his childhood. A very similar improvement in my appreciation of music has occurred with cannabis. For the first time I have been able to hear the separate parts of a three-part harmony and the richness of the counterpoint. I have since discovered that professional musicians can quite easily keep many separate parts going simultaneously in their heads, but this was the first time for me. Again, the learning experience when high has at least to some extent carried over when I’m down. The enjoyment of food is amplified; tastes and aromas emerge that for some reason we ordinarily seem to be too busy to notice. I am able to give my full attention to the sensation. A potato will have a texture, a body, and taste like that of other potatoes, but much more so. Cannabis also enhances the enjoyment of sex – on the one hand it gives an exquisite sensitivity, but on the other hand it postpones orgasm: in part by distracting me with the profusion of image passing before my eyes. The actual duration of orgasm seems to lengthen greatly, but this may be the usual experience of time expansion which comes with cannabis smoking. [spoiler]I do not consider myself a religious person in the usual sense, but there is a religious aspect to some highs. The heightened sensitivity in all areas gives me a feeling of communion with my surroundings, both animate and inanimate. Sometimes a kind of existential perception of the absurd comes over me and I see with awful certainty the hypocrisies and posturing of myself and my fellow men. And at other times, there is a different sense of the absurd, a playful and whimsical awareness. Both of these senses of the absurd can be communicated, and some of the most rewarding highs I’ve had have been in sharing talk and perceptions and humor. Cannabis brings us an awareness that we spend a lifetime being trained to overlook and forget and put out of our minds. A sense of what the world is really like can be maddening; cannabis has brought me some feelings for what it is like to be crazy, and how we use that word ‘crazy’ to avoid thinking about things that are too painful for us. In the Soviet Union political dissidents are routinely placed in insane asylums. The same kind of thing, a little more subtle perhaps, occurs here: ‘did you hear what Lenny Bruce said yesterday? He must be crazy.’ When high on cannabis I discovered that there’s somebody inside in those people we call mad. When I’m high I can penetrate into the past, recall childhood memories, friends, relatives, playthings, streets, smells, sounds, and tastes from a vanished era. I can reconstruct the actual occurrences in childhood events only half understood at the time. Many but not all my cannabis trips have somewhere in them a symbolism significant to me which I won’t attempt to describe here, a kind of mandala embossed on the high. Free-associating to this mandala, both visually and as plays on words, has produced a very rich array of insights. There is a myth about such highs: the user has an illusion of great insight, but it does not survive scrutiny in the morning. I am convinced that this is an error, and that the devastating insights achieved when high are real insights; the main problem is putting these insights in a form acceptable to the quite different self that we are when we’re down the next day. Some of the hardest work I’ve ever done has been to put such insights down on tape or in writing. The problem is that ten even more interesting ideas or images have to be lost in the effort of recording one. It is easy to understand why someone might think it’s a waste of effort going to all that trouble to set the thought down, a kind of intrusion of the Protestant Ethic.[/spoiler]

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                      • [quote]How many weedheads and drug addicts do you think EVER become a productive person in society?[/quote] Pretty sure like 75% of our presidents did weed at some point or various other drugs.

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                        • [quote]How many weedheads and drug addicts do you think EVER become a productive person in society?[/quote] I know a couple. They use it for medicinal purposes, but it's still something they're dependent on. No they're not scientists of physicists, but they are people, and they are productive. You're generalizing a bit too much here. You can't lump a group of people made up by an un-counted amount into a "scab of society" group because you don't know who's in there. Some people can't handle the effects appropriately, in which case maybe they shouldn't be on it. Another portion, I couldn't even tell they were on it, and was surprised to hear that they were using it. It is beneficial to some, detrimental to others, like anything out there. I did like parts of your first two paragraphs though.

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                        • [quote]Are there any top tier scientist or engineer that use drugs?[/quote] I know you're referring to recreational substances exclusively, but let's try to not use the term "drug" so freely. A drug is any substance that can alter chemical reactions within the body. So a scientist that takes something like Benzedrine would be classed as using drugs.

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                        • It is, in fact, believed that many if history's greatest artists, writers(Shakespeare included) etc were addicted to drugs. This has decreased recently but in the medieval/ renaissance eras, it was fairly common.

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                        • of course people will denounce science when it doesn't suit them. they have been doing this forever. Just eat or vaporize your weed. Assuming you are over the age of 18-ish no health risks. the air you breathe outside does you more harm than THC itself.

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                        • Why is it that Christians ask what was before the Big Bang as some sort of disproof of it, but are yet OK with an infinite god? Its because humans are very good at dismissing whatever they want to get what "proof" they need to justify their actions.

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                          • Say that to smokers.

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                          • We should just legalise it.

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                          • B-But... [spoiler]Blaze it 420...[/spoiler]

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                            • Its actually pretty funny. I just read an article about how 94% of all research has been how bad pot is. Only 6% has been on any benefit. So, we have a ton of data on how bad it is, and only a little on if it can have any benefit. That means the jury is still out on weed. The stoners may have a point. They could also be full of shit, too. Either way, we haven't even looked.

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