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originally posted in:Bungieball
7/13/2014 5:21:44 AM
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The rules call for circles drawn by hand and not with a tool. A person cannot physically draw a perfect circle without the help of a tool hence the "imperfect circles". Official PolandBall rule states "Draw a circle with the mouse" and Death's rules state " Balls can not be perfect circles. Draw them "by hand", don't use a circle tool." Of course these are supposed to be circles and that is what people who draw them correctly intend them to be when they draw them. Now, no ball will ever be a perfect circle because they are drawn by hand and that explains why some of them are seem to be completely disfigured. The point I'm trying to make with you is that in [u]some[/u] of your drawings, you ignore the circle rule and purposely make the ball appear more like a helmet rather than a circle.
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Edited by Casper: 7/13/2014 5:43:32 AMI use a drawing pad, so it's easier to make good circles. Now, I can understand reworking Drone's, because it looked much rounder up close. But I draw damn fine circles by hand, and only alter it slightly afterwards, to avoid "perfect circles" and if the design calls for it. My goal is first to make something unique the user will like, and then to make sure it falls somewhere within the guidelines, since (again) the are left to the artists discretion. When I drew Ossku's original design, I knew I had taken it too far by adding ear shapes and bringing out a jaw. I know where the limits lie, even when they are not exactly stated. Menschmaschine's ball in specific appears to be helmet-shape in relation to it's design and inspiration. However, if you'd notice, Scarecrow's EOD inspired ball does just that, as well. So if you are that concerned about everyone having such perfect, imperfect circles, then there should have been some template or selection of templates for everyone to use, rather than leaving it to the judgement of those drawing them.
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You might like the above. The thing is though, the rules aren't up to the artist's interpretations. You are viewing the rules far too liberally. If you can draw such good balls then you have no excuse for them looking helmet shaped at all. In the words of Death, "Jeez people it's Bungie[u]BALL[/u]"(his underlining) and quite frankly I agree with him as alot of people do purposely try to make their balls into something other than balls. And no, [url=http://i.imgur.com/WDc8MSM.png]Scare crow's[/url] does not appear helmet shaped.
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Yes it does. Halo 3's EOD was ovular/rectangular. Whether it was his intention or not doesn't change the fact that it is indeed reminiscent. And as I keep pointing out, you do not want perfect circles. This reason is why I edit the circles I draw. Apparently I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. The thing is, and what many others have pointed out as well, is that this is [i]Bungie[/i]Ball, not [i]Poland[/i]Ball. Having nearly the same exact rules defeats the purpose of trying to have our own thing. People want to be different. Obviously they aren't going to make something absolutely ridiculous, but you are the only one having an issue with people trying to be unique. No one else is complaining about some people not being circular enough. They just want to make something [i]close enough[/i] that is still a representation of themselves. And they see that you're being a killjoy with how strict you're being with some of the most minute details. Hell, Noble 6 was proud of his helmet, but had to change it because of pencil thin lines. Maybe that doesn't fly with PolandBall, but guess what. We're Bungie. We're the Flood. We're not countries, we're people who want to create something that shows who they are. Some of them even got away with it. And I don't mean the mods. Longface is a rectangle, and Space Whale is huge. If you have rules, then no user should be an exception. There's no reason Gojira can't be big or have spines. He is a well known and well liked user, and Godzilla is what he's known for, yet you deny him of that, and for what reason? So either [i]no one[/i] is an exception, or the rules need to allow more personality. It's BungieBall, and we're the dysfunctional family, each a unique member, of this forum.
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Edited by Plasma Seagull: 7/13/2014 1:26:47 PMNo, the only thing Scarecrow's ball is reminiscent of is a poorly drawn ball. Note how his doesn't put emphasis on corners or edges like yours. The reason the one in the OP is so long is because I have to resize each and every ball by hand to fit into the boxes and I didn't lower the height on his on accident as I had ~14 other balls to mess with at the time. Yes, believe it or not, I can make mistakes. And after that you basically spew some crap about how we aren't supposed to be like PolandBall, and how I'm the only one who has issues with people being unique, and some other stuff which you know is just complete bullshit. We have rules so people follow them and not take advantage of the system, because when we didn't have rules [u]everyone[/u] wanted to be the reichtangle, [u]everyone[/u] wanted guns and cat ears, and despite what you said, [u]everyone[/u] wanted to do something absolutely ridiculous. Look, all I asked was that you make your helmets look more like balls then helmets, but if that's too much, if trying to be like polandball is too much, and if I'm too much "killjoy", then go make your own damn thread because I'm tired of hearing you complain the whole time.
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Edited by Casper: 7/13/2014 3:00:37 PMWell it's really not bullshit, because believe it or not, people like being unique. No kidding that there need to be limits like no props or whatever. I'm not having any issue with that. Yeah, it's not PolandBall, others have said that, too. There's no reason to be exactly the same. Yeah, there need to be boundaries so people aren't just making whatever. I'm not trying to say people should be able to make absolutely anything. But what I've done is still in the rules. Believe me, my art classes in college emphasize on us to find the best way to work within the limits put on us. So what difference does it make if poorly draws something not circular enough or if they do it well? And saying the former didn't do it intentionally is not an excuse. They should try to better if that were the case. Besides, Menschmaschine loves their's design, same with Ossku, A clone Trooper, Noble 6, and DTL. Why do you have to take that from them? Especially when most of these won't even show up anywhere else. I get that you have some kind of vision with this whole thing, and I appreciate that. But you have to realize that when you ask for other peoples creative input, that something like this is going to happen. People aren't going to see your vision the way you do, and they're going to have they're own ideas that you need to compromise with. When you just nit pick at the smallest things wrong, then people are just going to get irritated. And for the shapes, I don't intentionally try to make them look like helmets so much. All I did for Menschmaschine's was draw a circle and add a little lip at the bottom. Nothing outrageous at all. An imperfect circle, just as the rules state by word: [quote]1. Balls can not be perfect circles. Draw them "by hand", don't use a circle tool.[/quote]
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[quote]my art classes in college emphasize on us to find the best way to work within the limits put on us[/quote] That's great. You should understand that the limitations are to put everything in a[u] hand drawn circle[/u]. The difference between an intentionally disfigured ball and a poorly drawn ball is huge. These things aren't supposed to masterpieces, they are supposed to look shitty. I won't say no to people because they can't draw well, but I will say no if they blatantly or intentionally go against the rules. You are correct, this isn't PolandBall, It's BungieBall. And others, not myself, have decided that BungieBall is to be a Bungie themed Polandball. That's it. You interpret this [quote]1. Balls can not be perfect circles. Draw them "by hand", don't use a circle tool.[/quote]completely wrong. It means that the ball is to be a circle, but it can't be drawn with a circle tool. The little tool that makes a perfect circle. That's all it means. When you made MenschMachine's helmet, you went and broke the rules. I then asked you to draw them more circular and that's how why we had this whole argument. Just because you don't follow the rules.
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But I [i]am[/i] following the rules. That's what I 'm saying. I can see having to have redone Drone's, yet you accepted that, when it's clearly less circular than this one. So if you accepted Drone's, what is the issue with this one? If the outline were rotated off to the right, and the bottom lip stuck out on the side, would there be a problem then? Because the little deviation, well within the stated rules, protrudes far less than The Dark Freckle's. Yet his is up to the left, which apparently makes it okay? The problem is that the rules are not clearly stated to the T, as they should be if you want them to fulfill some perfect idea. No one should be an exception. Not Mythic Wolf, not Space Whale. But instead of trying to compromise with people, you just want to take away from everyone. Instead of just saying "No, change this", or "This is wrong", try actually talking to the person, like I have, to see what can be done to make something where both parties are happy.
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No, you aren't following the rules. You are [u]intentionally[/u] making the balls look like helmets. If the outline was flipped then it would still be bad because you made the lip on purpose. Dark Freckle's ok, because it was a singular attempt at hand drawing a ball. It also adds the charm of being poorly made. The problem is not that the rules aren't stated well, Death is working on remaking them, but that you try to bend them. Also stop acting like that I want " to fulfill some perfect idea." You're kidding yourself with that crap. I'm just trying to put together a template and have the users follow rules. Stop trying to make me into the bad guy. Look, this is what I want you to do. Get on whatever you do to make these and make a bunch of balls with different outlines. I'll tell you what is good and what is not. Just make them white with eyes.
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The end product of how it is misshapen is irrelevant to how it was made. You can only assume if it were on purpose or not. Until the rules are rewritten, I have merely worked within the unspecified grey areas. You can imply what the rules should be, but implying is not clearly stating. All I'm trying to do is voice other people's frustration, not just my own. I'm trying to actually care for them and their freedom of expression. And yes, not everyone cares as much about this as I do, but I have seen enough concern over it to say something about it. If the rules were clearly defined, air tight, then I wouldn't have found the wiggle room I did. Not just that I read the rules, but I also looked at all the accepted users, because what's good for them is good for everyone else. People like things to be fair, and people like to be unique. I've done just that. This one design is not what you should be complaining about. The design I had taken too far was Ossku's original. Obviously that was outside the rules. Yet I asked for feedback anyway. When things aren't clear cut, you need to find how far you can go. Which I did. And I promptly fixed it. I know what I'm doing. And I'm not trying to make you look like the bad guy, I pointing out how strict you're being on [i]some [/i]people. Look, here's me trying to compromise with you. Either say in the rules "try to hand draw the best/closest circle you can",(obviously elaborated on) or make templates for people to use. Remember, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. (And I'm addressing you specifically because you are the OP of this thread, regardless of if this was entirely your idea or not.)
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So you are going to draw them more circular now?
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I'm going to draw what the rules allow me to, so make 'em good.
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Do you understand what the rules are going to be?
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Edited by Casper: 7/13/2014 5:48:41 PMI will follow them to what they explicitly state. So make them clear, and make them concise. Because my priority is making people happy with their designs. And make sure you let everyone know that the rules have been updated.
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Why must you be so difficult? The rules seem to be clear to everyone but you.
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They are clear to me, and I have followed them. I don't understand why this whole thing tries to stifle any sort of creative freedom. You and Death have been the only two to have issues with what I draw. I don't do anything so rebellious. Ossku has diamond-ish eyes and Menschmaschine's has a circle with a lip. They love them! It's what represents [i]them[/i]! A Clone Trooper didn't [i]need[/i] eyes because he's a Clone Trooper. That what this whole this is about! I understand the limitations you've set and I understand how far I can take them before it's too much and unfair to others. Some people are fine with just a simple ball, some people need a little more to be defined. Do you know how many ODST's there are? There's already a second, so why should they just be recolors of each other? They're different people, they should look different. Nobody, not a one has complained about anyone's design execpt when they get told no to their's. Yeah, some are reasonable, but you guys are so impersonal about it. Try talking to them. See what both of you can come up with. Compromise.
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Damn son, every time you write a wall. [quote] A Clone Trooper didn't [i]need[/i] eyes because he's a Clone Trooper. That what this whole this is about! [/quote] What? A clone trooper has eyes and this is about me asking you to draw circles. No one really complains when their designs get a "no" though. Everyone except you has been overly willing to cooperate with me.
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A Clone Trooper didn't have eyes until I said anything. But yes! Because personal expression means so much more to me than you realize. And yeah, I've seen a few agitated people. But they're not going to argue. Hell, I've changed mine without much argument either. But what it seems like you think I'm going to do is is completely ruin the BungieBall scheme by drawing outlandish shapes, when in reality I'm not. I respect this idea. I think it's a great idea. But not to the amount it tries to have over how people can be drawn. You've seen what I've drawn. I've made six, seven if you count the failed Ossku one. None of them are that alien compared to the rest. They all fit right in with the rest of the 150+ balls people have made. No one complains about them.
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Can we stop with all the idealistic crap and just come to the conclusion that you are going to try and draw balls that are circles and not helmets?
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It's not crap. I will draw them circular as the rules state. Unevenness does not constitute as "helmets". As I've said, I would not be going to college as an art major, a graphic design no less, if I did not care about this so much. But fine. I will aim to be more circular from here onward if Menschmaschine's and Ossku's are accepted. I already have another person waiting.
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[quote] I will aim to be more circular from here onward[/quote] THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay Now on to another subject. I actually really do enjoy your designs ex. Ingloriouswho98 and barking spider.
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I enjoy making these. And I like having boundaries to work with. But as you can tell, I hate being overly restricted.
