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8/25/2014 7:47:06 PM
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PS4 gets one mission. There are many in Destiny.
PS4 gets one pvp level. There are many in Destiny.
None of those are things that are essential to the game, nor are they "taken out" of it either. They were made specifically because of activisions deal with Sony. I understand your frustration about not "having it all", but it's not like you don't get a complete game.
It's more like you buying a blu-ray with less extra content. The movie is still going to be great.
Another point is about the level cap: You don't stop at level 20.
Your character's max level with normal gear is 20, but you can still earn upgrades and specializations to your class.
Additionally, from level 20 you can start using a completely new type of armor, one that generates Light. This allows you, with light armor, to effectively go beyond level 20 (IGN has a video of a level 29 Titan) However, it's at level 20 that you really start going into advanced gear collecting and character tweaking. The reasons the level cap is so "low", are several:
1: When creating your second, fifth or ninth character, tha game should still be fun for you, and not just an annoying "grind"
2: Destiny is skill-based, and is built with pve balance (letting high and low level characters playing together without anyone feeling useless) AND pvp balancing (crucible matches should feel fair when two experienced players compete, no matter their gear outside the iron banner events)
3: It's important to have a real sense of progression, and when the endgoal is too far away, things easily become boring. Not all players want to gain two levels on a nights playthrough, and be told that they are 2/70 on their way to become awesome.
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Edited by Capt Explodabob: 8/25/2014 8:18:47 PMYour first point, I agree with to some extent, but it's your following argument that made me question it later on. If Destiny was truly about competitive play, then surely the addition to that multiplayer map (which is a huge exclusion considering that Bungie games quite often only ship with eight maps) would enhance the competitive aspect -- same goes for the weapons and gear that can be taken into PvP. Your second point is almost literally listed word for word in the link that I provided, and I think that the IGN video you were also talking about is the one sourced in the link as well. Your third point stands, as I'm not arguing as to whether or not Destiny will be a grind after multiple play-throughs or not. That being said, for what it's worth, I do believe that the game will not hold the longevity that everyone is expecting it to. The game is meant to have no more than twenty five missions and one raid. But, like I said, I'm not trying to argue that, and it will all come to light on the ninth. Now for the infamous PvP argument. As I originally stated, PvP would only be enhanced by the inclusion of that one additional map and gear and weapons. Past Bungie games have launched with great maps, and while great - few in numbers. Halo 3 even had an event that entaled the launching of a free map, so you can't tell me that the exclusion of an entire map is no big deal, not to mention the exclusion of a whole mission to boot. As for your final point, I disagree with you. When a distributor resort to dictating what the customers want instead of how that distributor is going to be providing what the customers want - you have a problem. Games like The Elder Scrolls,, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Dragon Age, Fallout, Assassin's Creed, Borderlands, literally any MMO and almost every other RPG that I didn't list thrives on how long they last based on sheer progression and the lengthy leveling system. If your game is good enough to be enjoyable from lvl 1 through to lvl 80, then you've done your job. A game that has limited levels and caps at a low level tells me that there wasn't enough content to last it right up through to those forty plus extra levels. To put it simply: More levels = more gameplay Less levels = less gameplay My concerns with Destiny seem justified in my eyes, maybe it differs with a different perspective.
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At release Sony players get 11 pvp maps and we on the Xbox systems get 10. All that effects is pvp map rotation. Big whoopee doo!
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I know you're no longer replying to this thread, and given some of the rather idiotic responses I don't blame you, but I think your last point here is at the nub of the issue. Being a PS4 gamer I don't share the concerns over timed exclusive content but I wonder if your issues are more to do with the fact that you feel that by the time XBox gamers will be able to access these exclusives you'll have grown tired of the game. I know I'd be considering that. I'm a WoW veteran and to be frank I haven't played for years, mainly due to the subscription fee if truth be told. I have tried going back a couple of times however and it has been at these times I've realised other things about the game. Being such a huge world meant that even playing through numerous classes and races didn't get boring for a long time, there was just so much to do and a variety of different zones tailoured to each level band. However, boring it did get in the end, especially when those other players I'd become friends with had drifted away, as let's face it, it's the camaraderie and shared experiences which enhance a game and contribute to its longevity. I loved the early days of WoW where gaining levels wasn't a chore or a race, but instead gave a sense of real achievement. I have to wonder whether Destiny contains enough content and depth at this time for it to keep that sense of enjoyment and achievement going for long enough for XBox gamers to be bothered about the timed exclusive content when they finally gain access to it. I think it's here where Bungie have been guilty. All of their marketing spiel and posts on here talk Destiny up to be more than a game, they talk of it's scope and size as being beyond anything that's gone before it. Maybe when judged alongside other FPS they might be right, but I think many people who got excited about the game did so because of its MMORPG elements, thus attracting players of games such as WoW. Anyone who's played WoW and the like will know that Destiny will have to go some to measure up to them in terms of size, so I guess that'll leave many disappointed. I'm hopeful we'll still have an amazing game to play come release but given the amount of hype the game's had and the amount that's been spent on it, I for one won't be surprised if this effects reviewers' ratings a little and that there's more of a backlash than expected.
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Edited by frenchpoliser: 8/26/2014 2:00:32 PMDupe post
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I understand your concerns, and on some points it may just come down to particularities in tastes, but your arguments about levels i disagree with. First of all, the in my mind most obvious one. You can argue that more multiplayer levels will make the multiplayer experience better, and it probably would. However, this is not a given. Bungie has a pedigree for delivering a set of multiplayer levels that has gone through countless test phases and design works. Their levels have, generally speaking, been small world pieces that takes a long time to "master". Of my 50 matches in the Destiny Beta, playing only two different levels, i kept finding surprices and nuances that I didn't expect in almost every match. Again, that's personal taste, but if Destiny comes with 8 multiplayer levels, that gives me a chance to get more or less familiar with all of them. Being the kind of multiplayer gamer that I am, i would prefer 8 levels that someone put their heart and sweat into rather than 20 levels that were slapped together in a week each. I see the lack of a level (I'm getting it on Xbox One) as a thing to think about, but not something I'll lose any sleep over. Activision is one of the biggest publishers in the world. The dream is that business won't affect creativity, but the reality is that it does. If Bungie/Activision could make the game for free, then they would. But they can't. Activision has several deals with Microsoft on their big franchises. Sony, with the most selling current generation console, is absolutely a great business partner for them. Sony pays extra for their customers getting a bit of extra content, as an incentive from Sony. Activision on the other hand, gets to be fronted by Sony, raising awareness and hype on the most selling current-gen platform. It's good business sense. I can agree that in a perfect world, everyone would get everything, but I still consider it "additional extras" that I won't miss, given what's already there. That particular concern is something I understand, but don't share. The second point about levels is level cap. I am someone who absolutely loves what Bungie is doing, AND don't find it restrictive. A huge problem I have with traditional MMO's is the level difference. A player with level 50 is usually bored by one-shotting everything in range in the "newbie" areas, while a level 5 player would usually die instantly by entering a level 50 area. This creates a massive disparity, even between friends who play the same game, but one player has more time to play than another. To be forced to not play if you want to play together is a huge problem. Some MMO's solve this by making you weaker in certain zones, but this can be weird as well. The game world "nerfs" you, so as long as you play with players of a lower lever, you can't show off your "true" potential. Expressing skill is also an important piece of how I personally enjoy my games. Gaining an additional level fires off endorphins, for sure, but you get the same feeling when you progress your skills (in my opinion), of which there are more than 60 for every character in Destiny. The difference is that in Destiny, the different skills broadens your options instead of just adding more numbers to whatever attribute they are fixed to. Running around in the first story mission as a level 8, with a friend who was just starting out, gave me the opportunity to really show off. I could use my super, show off my skill and build, and felt powerful. At the same time, it still required me to work for my kills, and my friend who was a skilled first person shooter had no problems feeling like he was a part of the team instead of just following me around. The character levels in Destiny are designed around making you stronger as well as being able to play together with ANYONE, regardless of character level. You don't have to wait a week for your friend to catch up. You can play together right now. The fact that pvp and pve are both taken into extreme consideration when making the levelling system in this game is something I appreciate immensely. Just by playing the beta, I can say that it is my prefferred way of doing it, much more so than Wow, guild wars, borderlands etc. It may not be to everyones taste, if you have the need to outperform others, but in my opinion that outperforming bit must come from yourself in Destiny, and not your levels (although they help). Which is awesome :)
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Edited by Rory Mercury IX: 8/25/2014 8:26:18 PMhmmm have any of you played phantasy star online 2? they locked Lv cap at lv 20 1st too and added 5 more lv's every 2-4 mouths i haven't been on it in abit has it's still only JP server's but the way their doing this reminds me of PSO2 game play and Lv'ing wise.
