Did you not see my link? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque Whether I ride a bike or eat sweets (what?) has [b]nothing[/b] to do with unnecessarily killing animals for food. [quote]All subjects of modern society which involved killing animals to stay alive...[/quote]Do they actively kill animals now? No. What happened in the past is impossible to change. I'm concerned with what's happening right now. [quote]You're life is based on survival[/quote]Obviously, but you are making the flawed connection between survival in [i]the wild[/i] and survival in [i]first world society[/i]. In matters of life or death, extreme measures are often necessary. Average people have been known to commit cannibalism when they are stranded in remote corners of the world. Does this mean we should eat each other in society? Of course not. "Survival" for you and me is merely a case of driving to the supermarket. [quote]you are gifted with the chance to be at the top of the food chain.[/quote]And you think being born into the human species -- totally by luck -- entitles us to kill other animals whenever we please? Animals who were born into their species by the same token of luck? How arrogant. Being born as humans, we actually have an [b]obligation[/b] to make the most of our unique abilities -- abilities to make the world a better place for everyone, including fellow species. [quote]What do you think would happen if the world stopped eating meat... It would be a happy place?? Wow... That is a crazy statement.[/quote]Except I never made that statement, you did. I said that if the world became vegan, 60 billion land animals would be spared suffering and death each year, and we would obviously be more compassionate as a species because we share the same concern for animal welfare. [quote]But preventing us from eating meat, would cause global starvation...[/quote]This is factually incorrect. How do you think the animals you eat are fed? With crops. 60% of the world's grain and 70% of soy are fed to livestock. If you understand trophic levels you should know that this is very inefficient. We only get about a tenth of the energy back from their meat. Ironically, the meat industry is actually a major cause of world hunger. [quote]A dairy cow can produce 20,000lbs of milk with the ability to feed 20,000 people per year, with 2 glasses of milk per day. How many people can 1 carrot feed?[/quote]That is such an absurdly broken comparison it doesn't even need to be addressed. You forgot about all the food it takes to feed the cow, by the way. [quote]Mate you need a reality check[/quote]On the contrary, I've woken up. I used to eat meat just like you. Conditioned from an early age. But I eventually became concerned with the truth above all (not just in regards to veganism), and began researching the facts. And my eyes opened very quickly. [quote]Our genetics are designed to be able to sufficiently grow from eating meat alone.[/quote]That is a patently false and unscientific statement. Please provide a source confirming this. [quote]Vegans need all sorts of supplements...[/quote]So do meat eaters. You didn't think vitamin companies make most of their money from vegans, did you? As usual, they are a small minority. Here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/5-common-nutrient-deficiencies-and-what-to-do-about-them/#axzz3CaE3ofBh [quote]Out teeth are designed to be able to rip meat from bone, just like any other predator.[/quote]I never denied that we evolved the ability to eat animals. It has nothing to do with whether, ethically, we [b]should [/b] do it. [quote]Face the facts... a dolphin eats fish, but is cleaver enough to decide that if the fish is not big enough to eat it is not eaten. On the other hand, a starving wolf in Russia, will eat any sort of meat It can get it's teeth on. So if the wolf got the chance to eat you, it surely would!! Animal instinct vs intellect!![/quote]Okay? How is that relevant? A wolf cannot comprehend right from wrong. Your argument refutes itself because wolves eat humans -- just because they do it, should we? Should we eat each other? What other animals do has [b]nothing[/b] to do with what we should do. [quote]Please understand that we eat meat because we like it, but we also want to survive.[/quote]You "survive" by driving to the store. Where there are plenty of plant-based options available. [quote]Just Enjoy your veggies with your "mouth closed" meat eaters live in reality brother, veggies see with 1 eye shut. Kill or be killed, eat or starve.[/quote]I hope I have provided sufficient evidence to show that it is in fact meat eaters that have been duped. Like I said, I used to eat meat too. We are indoctrinated into it by the food industry at an early age, and never give it much thought. Only when we realize the facts, and see how irrational our defenses are, do we realize how easily we were manipulated. That's the crucial difference between a vegan and a stubborn meat eater: one values truth more than comfort and convenience. And at some point the excuses just don't cut it anymore.