I get your point, honestly, I do. I've been playing video games since my dad brought home a generic console that only played a version of Pong and Pac Man and Wizard of Wor were the only two arcade games at my local Wal-Mart. I've always looked at games, be they tabletop role-playing, board games, or video games as me vs the developer. I bring my skills, they bring their challenge, and their challenge better be up to the game I'm playing, or else I will be moving on to something else. That's why in City of Heroes I was soloing eight person raids designed for level 54 at level 50, that's why I could do group content in LOTRO alone, or smirk at people in DDO or MxO or WoW or SWToR who complained stuff was too hard, because I looked at things from a unique, creative and tactical mindset. And, I think that's the main problem with Destiny that a lot of people have. It's one of the few games that appealed to several different types of gamer. You've got the hardcore PVP players, you've got the MMO players, the FPS players, the Bungie loyalists, and the casual players, and the mix of people who can be part of all, or none of those groups. That's the main problem. I can see why some think the loot cave or farming is wrong, and I can see why some are so irrate over pushing Atheon off a cliff is cheating, but we have such an eclectic mix of players, that are so ingrained into the " this way is the only right way to do things" that they don't realize that players from other genres have a different mindset and can't comprehend how anything else is legit. If we all just let each other play the way we wanted, then this community would be amazing, but we still have people wondering why men play female characters ( again, something that is so common in MMOs it's no longer mentioned there, and I respond with how dare you play an Awoken Hunter when you've never been a space elf throwing void energy from your bare hand ) that something simple like another player using a different tactic than you is rage inducing, should be educational, not a whine fest. For the record, I'm a 43 year-old white male. I'm in a committed relationship with a woman and our 15th anniversary is tomorrow. I have a female character, and out of the two total times I've done the raid, I've never beaten Atheon with the push off the cliff method. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's wrong. <3