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10/15/2014 2:18:50 PM
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I really can't believe that so many people are upset about Bungie removing a way to circumvent encounter mechanics - a BLATANT exploit. Hiding on a sniper platform is a zero risk strategy that completely goes against the intention of the encounter. Personally, I hope they fix this stuff everywhere - hiding in crates in the Mars strike, under the platform against the Archon Priest, tucked away in terrain in The Nexus - if you find the encounters to be boring and tedious, that's one thing. The call should be to make them more dynamic and interesting. But to be upset that they fix endgame content in a way that makes failure once again a possibility - what sense does that make?
And as an aside, the nerf to Vex Mythoclast was a direct result of the mass proliferation that occurred due to EXPLOITATION of Atheon! (I'd be curious to see the percentages of legitimate hard mode kills vs making him walk off a cliff) Had the weapon continued to be as exclusive as it should have been, it would have been left alone, because the Crucible Carebears would rarely be on the business end of one. Keep that in mind in the future when your "creative" tactics are hot fixed.
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By your definition, taking cover from enemy fire is an exploit. I believe your definition leaves a great deal to be desired.
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It's not simply taking cover from enemies. It's removing their ability to pursue the player, and (in regards to the Templar fight) removing the effect of the Oracles and other adds from the encounter altogether.
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I frankly don't care about any of that. This is a simulation. If you can use your abilities and the environment to make a tough battle easier, good for you. Doing so is perfectly legitimate. Changing the underlying, fundamental rules of the simulation to keep players from using their abilities and environment is NOT legitimate. If Bungie wants less sniping from the perch, there are any number of ways to do that without violating our willing suspension of disbelief. This was lazy, ham-handed, and inexcusable.
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So the satisfactory response would have been to make the towers higher, farther out, or otherwise inaccessible by players? It's the same result, but the recent hotfix is a much easier solution. Or would you just leave everything the way it is, make it so it requires very little in the form of skill, practice, and determination, and watch a forum community cry that there's no content left because they found a way to cheese past everything?
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In case you haven't noticed, there's been no content left for some time now. "Easier" in that it violates the willing suspension of disbelief? What they did is a slap in the face to players. You do not alter the rules of the simulation on a whim. Why *shouldn't* a sniper be able to make use of a defensible elevated position with a good view of the battlefield? That's what snipers do. And to add insult to injury, the enemy snipers continue to do so. Your definition of "cheese" sounds very much like my definition of "sound tactics".
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At this point in the conversation, I don't think the two of us are referring to the same thing. A sniper simply using an elevated position is NOT what led to the Templar hotfix. I'll post a video to what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yacjPJQL8fg If you watch that video and think it's a legitimate way of beating this encounter, then I think you're insane.
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What's illegitimate about it? They used their abilities and terrain to their advantage. That's kind of the point of having abilities and terrain in the first place. I also note how easy this would have been to legitimately nerf. Shrink the size of the platform and all the angles are no longer there.
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Edited by Orthus: 10/15/2014 4:18:37 PMIt is a legitimate way of the beating the encounter, as it is mastery and understanding of the game mechanics and the use of negative possiblity space, as well as depth in game mechanics to allow multiple solutions to the encounter. Related extra credits videos: easy games (depth based challenges vs execution challenges): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U negative possibility space (sniper platforms): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnxVOUSzX4A when difficulty is fun(enemies follow game rules, don't change game rules, and players can approach problems in new ways given the tools they are provided such as game mechanics, terrain, and enemy AI) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs
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I absolutely loved that last video. Thanks for sending it our way!
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Edited by Giblet: 10/15/2014 2:50:16 PMYou've obviously never done the hard raid, because you would know that failure is most certainly an option every single second no matter how your approach ANY of those fights. The atheon fight is the only true Cheese, everything else was a legit strategy. On normal it would probably be too easy, but on hard where you can be two shotted at level 30 there's hardly a such thing as cheesing it.
