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10/27/2014 9:47:56 PM
9

Thorn and The Last Word Grimoire

Personally, I fancy myself the Hand Cannons. I obtained Thorn a few weeks ago and have been enjoying its power ever since; but hopes of obtaining The Last Word still linger. I was scrolling through my Grimoire Cards last afternoon when I stumbled upon the Grimoire for Thorn. I read it- and began to vaguely understand the dark history behind Thorn. How the wielder was once a hero of light- and the people looked up to him. But deep down, he was a man of darkness, and he succumbed to that darkness. Grimoire suggests that he left his body, he had the same flesh, same bones, but he was ultimately a different man entirely. Now this was the last known man to carry the name, Yor. Is it sheer coincidence that when claiming the Thorn, you are to execute a Wizard known as, Xyor? Yor seemed to transform into something else- something dark. Yor left all the Light he had behind him. Perhaps- Yor has become Xyor? ----------------------------------------------- // End Log // - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ///_------------ This theory led me to further inspect the Grimoire Cards. I came across The Last Word. A much more warming story. But still, potential darkness lingers... The Last Word belonged to a powerful Hunter known as Jaren Ward. (coincidentally the first name of my younger brother) Jaren Ward came to a town known as Palamon. From what I could find, it seemed like a safe place; a sanctuary of sorts. Although it's leader seemed to be falling down a path of darkness. Findings suggest that the hardships he (Loken) endured took a toll on him. But perhaps it was something else. Jaren Ward handed The Last Word to a young boy when he came into Palamon. Grimoire suggests that the townspeople did not agree with this. As the shook their heads in disagreement to the boy who took the gun. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /// - - - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have yet to stumble across additional Ghost Fragments for continual information on The Last Word- however, a recent Ghost Fragment was found for Thorn. Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2, to be exact. Simply titled as, "The Bloom" this Grimoire transcript records the conversation between the wielder of Thorn, and what I believe to be a couple of Wasteland Bandits (or so I like to call them). They seem interested in Thorn, mesmerized by it even. Though the Guardian seems to be passive about fighting, like all confrontations now, blood was spilt, and the bandits surely regretted showing interest in Thorn. I seemed to have gone on a but of a tangent, this body of the fragment is not what I am interested in at this time. What I am interested in is that before the dialogue begins, the Grimoire has a category titled as, "ASSOCIATIONS" ...and within this category, multiple names appear, but two in particular; Last Word, and Jaren Ward. What could this mean? Is Jaren Ward one of the Bandits associated in this conversation. Is Jaren Ward killed? It eludes me... Further analysis is needed, as is additional information from The Tower's Guardians. The Hunters will mock me for this. A warlock asking for help... I don't know why I bother capitalizing their names... But this truthfully has me blocked; and I hunger for more information on this. I must find The Last Word, and the continuing history behind it. - Atlas Kazan, The Unbroken Stoic - ----------------------------------/////////// -End////////////////--/////////////__//////-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------\\\\\\\\\EXO\\------//////]VOIDWALKER[/////////______[THORN ACQUIRED]......vngrd///L29/////////////////------------------------

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  • Might wanna read this thread. http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2q4ovb/lore_last_word_thorn_and_the_very_first_gunslinger

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  • Edited by Ada-1's Thighighs: 7/26/2015 3:30:44 PM
    Spoilers for pretty much every Ghost Fragment of The LAst Word and Thorn contained. Here's my theory of the connection between the two, and Dredgen Yor/Palamon and Jaren Ward. [spoiler]If you read the Grimoire card "Ghost Fragment: The Last Word 3", it says that Ward went off into the forest by himself, fired off a few shots (it specifically stated the shots were from The Last Word), and never returned. But, in "Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2", Yor encounters a party of four. The only shots fired are from Thorn. After reading these comments it almost sounds like Yor killed Ward. But he couldn't have. Ward died alone and he fired shots; but Yor killed a party of four, and *he* fired shots. It doesn't add up. However, in "Ghost Fragment: The Last Word 3", the narrator does state this: "Three less than two moons prior, but still, one more than when we'd first turned our backs to Palamon's ash." WHEN WE'D FIRST TURNED OUR BACKS TO PALAMON'S ASH. This means that Ward probably killed Yor or that Palamon turned into Yor and the group abandoned him. I can't tell for sure. It also states this: "We all woke that night, closer to morning than the previous day. A crack of gunfire split through the wood. Then more. Far off, but near enough to pump the blood. A familiar ring. "Last Word." Jaren's sidearm. His best friend. Then another. A single shot, an unmistakable echo calling through the night. Hushed, cutting. One shot, dark and infernal. Followed by silence." A dark and infernal shot. Maybe the final shot given off by Thorn in "Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2"? Still, I don't know. But I can tell that Ward and Yor were most likely two very different people with some sort of feud against each other. Not to mention that in "Ghost Fragment: The Last Word 3" the narrator talks about them tracking somebody. Paired together with leaving Palamon's ashes, it sounds like they were tracking Palamon (now Dredgen Yor) and Ward was killed by him. One of them killed the other. Or they killed each other.[/spoiler] I'm sure there's a way to explain it, but for the moment I'm mostly convinced that Yor and Ward were two separate people. Not to mention that they both die in different ways, with different guns. (Maybe they're the "Good Twin" and the "Evil Twin", I dunno.) EDIT: After considerable time and revising of my theory (and the handy-dandy release of the "Thorn 4" Ghost Fragment), I now have a new entry. Spoilers ahead for Ghost Fragment: Thorn (pretty much all) [spoiler]After reading "Thorn 4", I now believe that in "The Last Word 3", the group with Jaren Ward was hunting Dredgen Yor, after having facing the fact that Palamon was no more. As we all know, Palamon gave up his self and his Rose to become Dredgen Yor, with his Thorn. Palamon, the hero, started killing innocents to prove that he was.. more, corrupted by the Darkness. Here, we see a small part the conversation between Ward and Yor. Ward is the first voice. "[u.1:4.1] I rekindled your Light, it falls first to me to aid in its survival. [silence] [u.2:4.2] I tire of it. [u.1:4.2] You must try... [u.2:4.3] I tire of you. [u.1:4.3] [REDACTED]... [u.2:4.4] That is no longer my name. [u.1:4.4] I will not speak the other. [u.2:4.5] It doesn’t matter. This is where we part ways. [u.1:4.5] I will not leave you. [u.2:4.6] I am leaving you. [u.1:4.6] Without me, your journey ahead will be more than any one Guardian can handle. [u.2:4.7] That’s the point. It’s been sometime since you saw me as worthy of walking among those I once called brother and sister. Yet... anymore, I feel as though I am worthy of so much more. [u.1:4.7] Without me... You will die. [u.2:4.8] Someday. Won’t be the first time. So Yor was a pupil of Ward, who - with a savior complex - tried his best to guide him in the proper ways. But Yor, ultimately thinking of and for himself, let himself become corrupted by the Darkness. The redacted entry was most likely his old name, Palamon. "[u.2:5.0] You will. Or I will carve the Light from your shell and leave the carcass of my first and last friend in the dirt of this dull, red world for no one to find." Yor isn't afraid to kill Ward and leave his corpse on Mars, drained of Light and let to rot. An even larger indication of his mind - hi sanity - being lost. And here's another connection to Ward's hunt, and ultimate death: "[u.2:5.4] When you speak of me, use my proper name. Tell them of the man that stands before you, not the ghost of the hero I once was. [u.1:5.2] You will always be [REDACTED] to me. [u.2:5.5] If you cannot let that man go, you will forever taint his legacy. All the good I have ever done will be washed away in the fire of who I have become. [u.1:5.3] If you care, there is still some promise within you. [u.2:5.6] If I am being honest, I care only to give hope to the frightened, huddled masses so that when I come upon them they will have more to lose. Their pain will be greater. Their screams more pure. [u.1:5.4] You... [u.2:5.7] Nothing dies like hope. I cherish it. [u.1:5.5] You’re a monster. [u.2:5.8] Finally, you see the truth. [u.1:5.6] [REDACTED] is truly dead. [u.2:5.9] So I’ve said. Long live Dredgen Yor. [u.1:5.7] This is farewell, but you can only run from your sins so far. In the end, you will die alone. [u.2:6.0] Maybe so. But I gotta tell ya... I tend to like my odds. [u.1:5.8] Your tainted “Rose” will not always save you. [u.2:6.1] Old friend... It already has." Perhaps it was here that Ward turned his back on Palamon's ash? If so, then Jaren Ward did not live long afterwards, nor did he succeed in his mission to stop, or end, Dredgen Yor. Perhaps this is where "Palamon's ash" came from: "[u.2:3.5] Am I not already more than the rest? [u.1:3.5] Looking at you here, now. The smoke, ash and bone at your feet mark you as so much less." And, perhaps, the four "bandits" Yor came across were simply wandering innocents. Perhaps they were the first innocents he killed. All evidence so far has dismissed one of my old theories, one that I never stated on here (that Ward and Yor were once truly brothers). So, will we find Ward's body on this unknown "Seventh Moon"? Will the Fallen have stripped his corpse, or taken it off somewhere? Will we find his Ghost, abandoned, drained of Light, and damaged? I don't know. Before I wrap this up, I have one smaller theory. Most art I've seen depicting Dredgen Yor and Jaren Ward, depict Yor as a Hunter. I believe he was a Warlock, as the cover of the Thorn cards show a Warlock holding the Thorn. Not only this, but Yor realized with stunning clarity that everything he'd been led to believe was not entirely so. With such clarity, in fact, that only a Warlock could achieve.[/spoiler] Anyway, that's my theory. I'm sure I'm missing some details, I am aware there must be loopholes, etc. etc. I just hope you like this, and I am open to feedback. P.S. I will now be posting this in it's own forum entry for more views and feedback.

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    • There's a new last word ghost grimoire found on the dlc moon mission. I won't spoil it, but it is pretty cool. I love the lore behind these weapons.

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    • There is a theory that Yor and Ward are one and the same. The theory goes that in the grimoire card for the last word, it says that he met two men, one the brightest light, and one the darkest shadow, but it mentions only one man walking into town. The belief is that Jaren Ward gave the last word to Shin Malphur, who many believe to be the child telling the story in Palamon. He then went to the moon and either made or claimed rose, and it corrupted him, causing him to rename it thorn. He then took up a new name, Dredgen Yor (possibly of hive origin?). The card even says he was the first and last bearer of the name, so it must be a new one that he gave himself. Malphur then killed him for his crimes at the showdown at Dwindler's ridge. This is believed to be why Malphur repeats Jaren Ward's words to Loken before he killed him, "Your's, not mine." To remind Yor of who he once was. This also would explain why the name Jaren Ward was mentioned in the transcript of the second ghost fragment Thorn card, but he wasn't involved in the incident.

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    • In destiny all wizards are females. Dont know why they just didnt call them witches..

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    • But wizards are girls

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    • Edited by SoloXYZed: 10/27/2014 11:41:15 PM
      I have both guns. The Last Word (Yin) and Thorn (Yang). Jaren Ward and Dredgen Yor are one in the same, but not. The Rose grimoire card: "In that cool evening air, as dusk was devoured by night, the noble man ceased to exist. In his place another stood." "Same meat. Same bone. But so very different." "The first and only of his family. The sole forbearer and last descendent of the name Yor." Jaren was the noble man, He found Thorn (aka. Rose) on the moon and it slowly corrupted him, turning him into Dredgen Yor. I believe the narrator in The Last Word grimoire cards is Shin Malphur. At the end of card 1 he says: "Palamon raised me from there. The family I call my own - called my own - cared for me as if I was their natural born son. And life was good. Being the only life I knew, my judgment is skewed, and it wasn't easy - pocked by loss as it was - but I would call it good. Until, of course, it wasn't. Until two men entered my world. One a light. The other the darkest shadow I would ever know." I believe the two men are Jaren and his dark side. The Dark Age 2 grimoire card, again by Shin Malphur: Loken's men found Jaren Ward in the courtyard where this had all began. Nine guns trained on him. Nine cold hearts awaiting the order. Magistrate Loken, standing behind them, looked pleased with himself. Jaren Ward stood in silence. His Ghost peeked out over his shoulder. Loken took in the crowd before stepping forward, as if to claim the ground - his ground. "You question me?" There was venom in his words. "This is not your home." I remember Loken's gestures here. Making a show of it all. Everyone else was still. Quiet. I tugged at my father's sleeve, but he just tightened his grip on my shoulder to the point pain. His way of letting me know that this was not the time. I'd watched Jaren's every move over the past months, mapping his effortless gestures and slight, earned mannerisms. I'd never seen anything like him. He was something I couldn't comprehend, and yet I felt I understood all I needed the moment I'd seen him. He was more than us. Not better. Not superior. Just more. I wanted father to stop what was happening. Looking back now, I realize that he didn't want to stop it. No one did. As Loken belittled Jaren Ward, taunted him, enumerated his crimes and sins, my eyes were stuck on Jaren's pistol, fixed to his hip. His steady hand resting calmly on his belt. I remembered the pistol's weight. Effortless. And my concern faded. I understood. "This is our town! My town!" Loken was shouting now. He was going to make a show of Jaren - teach the people of Palamon a lesson in obedience. Jaren spoke: clear, calm. "Not anymore." Loken laughed dismissively. He had nine guns on his side. "Those gonna be your last words then, boy?" The movement was a flash: quick as chain lightning. Jaren Ward spoke as he moved. "Yours. Not mine." Smoke trailed from Jaren's revolver. Loken hit the ground. A dark hole in his forehead. Eyes staring into eternity. Jaren stared down the nine guns trained on him. One by one, they lowered their aim. And the rest of my life began - where, in a few short years, so many others would be ended. I believe after Jaren frees Palamon from Loken he takes Shin under his wing as an apprentice, Jaren eventually obtaining The Rose (Thorn) and passing The Last Word to Shin. The weapon slowly turns Jaren into the murderous Dredgen Yor. Shin Malphur being the only one who could put a stop to him. The Last Word weapon description: "Yours… Not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor during the showdown at Dwindler's Ridge.

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      • I remember from somewhere that the Thorn and the Last Word have a yin yang relationship light/dark, hope/dispair,purity(the boy)/corruption(yor) and so on

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        • Are Ward and Yor the same man? Has the darkness made him mad into thinking two men exist?

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