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10/30/2014 1:34:17 PM
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You can get both fragment of the prime and COTHL without beating the raid
English
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They can be "cheesed" by someone else giving you a checkpoint. But even that still requires someone else to have had success in the raid. At a minimum, having successfully fought their way INTO hte VoG.
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No cheese involved from oracles to Gatekeeper on normal mode can get you both pieces of gear you mentioned. The only gear exclusive to beating the raid is the Helmet and VM on hard mode
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Your defining "beating the raid" differently than I am. Yes, you are correct that you don't have to COMPLETE the raid in order to get these items. But you do have to successfully complete PARTS of the raid---where loot is given---in order to get these items. They aren't going to handed out as "random" drops on patrols or in Crucible matches.
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You said if you see a warlock with both items you know they beat the raid,I just pointed out that just because you have those items doesn't mean you've beaten the raid
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...and I said---according to how you choose to define that term----you are correct. Which is why I then l clarified what I meant when I said that.
