originally posted in:Secular Sevens
It's difficult to sway somebody to your side when religion has been used as a tool to control the masses out of fear or to rule over others since you "Speak to God." Furthermore, when there have been SO MANY religions in the history or mankind, and we have gone from Gods to God, its difficult to make someone believe you lol trust me, i've tried. To sway the really non believers, you'd need Jesus himself to come down here and show the world he is real.
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He already did that.
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So did muhammad. Checkmate, you're a muslim
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Muhammad wasn't God. Not relevant.
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Prove jesus was
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He said he was (punishable by death, which is what happened), he acted like he was (miracles, etc.), and taught things that were completely contradictory to the times they lived in. You might even call them modern (gender equality, etc.). They definitely weren't like political ideas that change gradually over time. People who knew him believed it enough to die (not for political power like early Muslim martyrs). Jesus was either who he said he was, or a complete lunatic, or one of the most evil liars of all time. What did he have to gain by claiming he was God, but refusing to lead a rebellion against the occupying Romans? That was a popular notion among Palestinian Jews of the time, and would have gained him significant political power.
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Throughout history, people have believed in many gods enough to die for them, and 'miracles' could easily have been embellished over time, or simply confused in translation. I won't deny that his ideas and methods were good and honourable, but that does not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was indeed, a physical manifestation of a higher power. He [b]may[/b]* have been delusional and called himself the son of God, or people may have read too much into his actions and words. He could have been a slightly deluded visionary of his time, but people have come up with ideas ahead of their time on more occasions than just him. For the record, I enjoy theological debates for their own sake. And am well aware nobody's beliefs will be changed by anything said here. *any offence is unintentional, wording these things gets tricky sometimes.
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Christianity was a radical break with contemporary social, political, and religious thought. It wasn't used to foment a rebellion for political gain, or otherwise upset the status quo. What did Jesus have to gain by doing what he did? Nothing. He died. That's it. In terms of Earthly gain, there was none. That makes no sense. Judaism wasn't that way, and neither was Islam. Or Hinduism. Or Zoroastrianism. That he was who he said he was makes more sense to me than other explanations. And it explains what I have seen and experienced better than anything else.
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If it makes sense to you, cool. I propose we agree to disagree. Well debated sir.
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Take it easy.