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Edited by denjoga:
11/21/2014 9:21:13 PM
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"To the Spoilers go the Victory" or: "Lag Advantages Enabled"
I quit playing BF4 and bought Destiny because, among other major problems, DICE's "latency compensation" system makes it so that the person with the worst connection wins.
Add to that the fact that the countries with the worst internet connection quality had no regional servers of their own, not to mention regions were not enforced in any way, and the game became unplayable (unless head-exploding rage is something you enjoy in a game).
I bought and play Destiny for the co-op PVE, not for the PVP, but I like the Iron Banner a bit better than the standard Crucible and I want the gear, so I've been playing it a lot.
The latest patch included the addition of connection quality indicators (something that DICE refused to add to BF4).
And now it's clear to see that Bungie's lag compensation works the same way as DICE's; 90% of the time, the top 3-5 players on the scoreboard not only have the highest scores and the highest k/ds but also the lowest connection quality.
It never fails - any time I'm getting owned by the same person repeatedly, or see "xxxx earned a 5 kill streak", I look at the roster and , sure enough - one tiny little red bar.
Now as I said, I bought this game for the PVE, not the PVP, so I won't try to lobby for a change to the system like I wasted so much time doing on the BF4 forums.
I just wanted to raise the issue and put it up for discussion.
The game has significant sync issues as well, another flaw it shares with BF4.
How the hell do I get a post-mortem melee kill? Happens all the time - punch the guy, he kills me, then my punch kills him.
It's also very common for me to shoot the crap out of someone (with a poor connection, of course) only to have him kill me and then see him take all the damage I dealt him in the kill cam - FULL SECONDS, not even milliseconds after the damage was done.
I've been playing online multiplayer FPS since they were first available on consoles and in that time, lag, hit-sync/detection and sync in general have only gotten worse and worse.
The game industry has to address these issues - everyone's internet connections are getting better and better, and yet, those who make the effort and spend the money to get the best connection possible get punished for it.
It's not right.
I enjoy PVP FPS - I'd rather be playing that than PVE, but no PVP that I've played in the last several years has worked properly and they've only gotten worse with each new generation.
I'm damn glad that Destiny has a co-op PVE that I enjoy, otherwise I don't know what the hell I'd be playing.
I'm not sure I can play MP PVP FPS anymore, unless this trend is reversed.
Sorry for the long post, I had to say what was on my mind.
Thanks for reading, if you did.
And BTW - "madcuzbad" might have been an easy response in BF4 where, without connection quality indicators, it was hard to prove that the lag advantage existed - But this game has the proof, right there in the scoreboard, so don't bother.
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Gebus was the lag strong for me today, I was constantly at red bar and all my shots would hit and either not cause damage or hit and the guy dies a couple seconds after he kills me, I was getting killed by people who are stuck running into walls or doing the moon dance, it was darn near unplayable. I have Comcast, that could be one reason why.
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This is one of the biggest issues in gaming today and it actually has to do with making an advantage for some where there was none before to simulate fairplay in the face of uneven skill levels...if mad cuz bad kid can't get kills without the artificial advantage that this creates he will not ask mommy for destiny 2. It is to protect the future investments in the series and is a widespread and bullshit tactic in the online gaming industry nowadays.
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Edited by CajunBoy83: 1/20/2015 7:21:35 PMPeople who agree: paid good money for good Internet. People who disagree: leech off of neighbors wifi, or tether to their phones
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Edited by BlueSKAdo: 1/20/2015 5:44:01 PMBump been a problem since day 1 have my deaths come from laggers but i noticed that i tend to get red bars i have a wired nat open connection at 100 mbs in 15mbs out ping rating and still i find myself in laggy games here and on DA:I its fn bungies servers just like its EA on DA and 2k on evolve and they keep saying its us because its easier on topbit seems both xbox live and psn havent been running properly since the lizard attack too
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Personally I would like the kill trades if they weren't due to lag. It makes no sense in most fps games how both players send a wall of bullets at each other but the one who fired slightly faster walks away unharmed. Killing an enemy doesn't make bullets disappear.
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In the gaming world there are few things that I feel more strongly about than this issue. I spend way more than I should on a 150+ mbs connection and often watch in horror as a fusion rifle burst does no damage to my opponent, after squarely hitting the target. (And in turn die from a Warlock melee at range) "WTF" turns into a mild burn when the opponent dies of said fusion rifle damage. Full 1.5 seconds latter, with the salt in the wound 'postmortem' medal awarded. Happens way more than it ever should in a game with dedicated servers....
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10 RepliesOmg another crap pvp player complaining that they can't win. Get over it bruh. Your problem is that you spend more time trying to "change the game" than actually playing. Get good and shut up Meg.
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2 RepliesUnloaded eight shots point blank into a hunter and he took no damage lol Yet he could still kill me and others easily Cheers Bungie
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Agreed about the lag issues. Now I acknowledge that I'm not at all good at PvP but I really struggle to get high KD's in this game. It's almost impossible for me to kill someone without them killing me at the same time. Once I fired a rocket at a machine gun user. He takes no damage initially and proceeds to kill me. A full 3 seconds after, he dies from my rocket. I just don't know what to do... On regular gun battles I pretty much kill the enemy and die at the same time. A lot of the time it looks like I did no damage to them, only for them to suddenly lose 90% of their health 2 seconds after I die. Also anyone else know how lag affects tripmine grenades? I always throw them right next to my target but they never go off. My internet connection is 100mb fibre optic so I doubt that's the issue. It's hardwired to my PS4 so no wifi connectivity problems.
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It got so much worse after the bried shutdown
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1 ReplyAnyone, good luck to the OP on his endeavors. But Activision still hasn't fixed their [i]other [/i]lag-compensation-infested series for 4 years running now (Modern Warfare 3 - 2011). Even after much whining about how the netcode and lag compensation has gone downhill by millions of people. I kind of doubt they even want to fix a game that just came out a few mere months ago. All we can really do is at this point is to [b]completely ignore [/b]Destiny's crucible element and Call of Duty online MP, and wait for games that actually have proper netcode (like Titanfall, and the upcoming sequel).
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2 RepliesDoes destiny use a host system to time the games? I've gone from one game I stick someone with a grenade, they kill me, and a five or more seconds later I get a postmortem. During games like that I can't seem to kill half the players. Then the next game I went 8.3 K/D. It was painfully easy to kill anyone. I have 150 mb/s internet with low ping that usually clocks in the 90 mb/s range and 15-20 ping. My connection stayed green both games. The only logical sense I could make of it is that I was the host for the second game. I have also noticed that a lot of times you'll see people playing in fireteams, all with poor connections. Normally when I play against a clan I expect to get wrecked. But when all players on a fireteam have tiny red bars, it makes me wonder if they are all just working together to slow down their connections to get an unfair advantage. If after two games in a row it is the same people with the same poor connection, I leave and find another match. And most of the time the next game I get in is much better.
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4 RepliesWhile match making, I've noticed in the Fireteam menu, most if not all, players are in the green. Once we start loading into the Crucible map, some players go from green to orange or red. Just throwing that out there...
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Edited by Staticks: 1/17/2015 1:06:06 PMYeah, the lag compensation is absolutely hideous in this game--some of the worst EVER seen in a game. That's one trait that Bungie should not be proud to share with the other Activision FPS series, Call of Duty and Advanced Warfare (or rather, LagComp of Duty: Advanced Lagfare). Both games exhibit absolutely hideous signs of unnecessary, inexplicable networking delays. I have very good internet. Not just in terms of bandwidth, which is a decent 50 down, 12 up. But I also have very low ping (as low as 15ms ping time to some popular internet sites), with a wired ethernet connection to my console, and my router properly setup up, ports opened, etc. Doesn't matter. I have atrocious gaming experiences in Destiny PvP, going negative K/D most of the time, and feeling like I'm getting melted instantly by opponent auto rifles. Almost every gunfight feels like sheer luck whether I kill the enemy or not. Sometimes, I'm lucky enough to get into a server or match where I go on a rampage, and get like 30 kills and 4.0+ K/D, but then the very next game, I could go .56 K/D, and do terribly. I feel like my skill has ZERO affect whatsoever on my "destiny" in this abominable competitive MP game. I don't claim to be the best MLG-caliber player ever at FPS, but I think I should at the very least be good enough to go positive most if not all games. I don't experience any of these insta-death and lag comp-related issues in other FPS titles (Counter-Strike, Titanfall) that have PROPER netcode. I have a feeling Bungie has some monkies working in their networking department that need to be fired. Misc details: I'm on the West Coast, and my ISP is Comcast Cable.
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2 RepliesEdited by Marshxy: 11/24/2014 3:17:54 PMIt's different in different games with me, sometimes a guy with a red bar does well, but most of the time I have no problem killing them. But when my connection drops for whatever reason in some games, I can't kill anybody, and I seem to get shot by people around a corner before I've even walked around it... If some people are gaining advantages through their connection to non-local servers, I haven't witnessed it, and I sure as hell haven't had any advantage from lagging!
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1 ReplyWhat usually happens to me is I have good internet in orbit but as soon and I start a match my internet goes to shit
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1 ReplyWhere are you seeing these colored bars? I am on PS4 and have never seen them.
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3 RepliesIf they're not going to give us dedicated servers that are region AND ping locked, then they need to start banning players whose connection is consistently bad. Maybe a warning at first and then go from there. There are also a number of players who have other things eating up bandwidth like Netflix while they're playing.
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yep its -blam!-ing ridiculous ...waste of time playing iron banner when people with a shitty connection are ruining it completely ...-blam!- you bungie ffs cant they matchmake all the shitty connection people together so the rest of us who pay for good internet can play properly
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There's always that one guy who's invincible and can take out 3 players shooting at him simultaneously.
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Totally agree. The decrease in quality for online multiplayer has made a former obsession something I can no longer enjoy. I've increased my internet speed multiple times over the past few years, and now it seems I'd be better off using dial up. This is what we get for the time and money we've invested.
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4 RepliesI fully agree with your post. BF4 killed multiplayer for me. Destiny multiplayer just as bad. Every single point you brought up is so true. One thing you forgot to add, was the lag switchers. It is so obvious when a lag switch is in use in this game. I played IB Sat. and Sun. and in almost every match, there was at least one person running a lag switch. In one game, there were two working together in tandem. This has nothing to do with anybody being a good or bad player. I also find most of the people who respond "you bad bruh", or "you just suck at PvP" are more than likely using a lag switch, modded controller, or messing around with their connection speed.
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10 RepliesEdited by Lockheed SR72: 11/22/2014 9:14:22 PMSeriously, this is happening too often. I can play COD AW or BF4 and totally beast (6.0 K/D in AW) and 64 kills a match in BF4 and my friends have seen it. We start playing Iron Banner on weekends and all of a sudden my KD is lower than 0.3 with a lvl 29 lock and lvl 30 titan Tried: Pocket Infinity Atheons EP (Maxed out) Shadow Price Last Word Vex Mythoclast Nobody -blam!-ING DIES. The only way I can get kills with this terrible lag/matchmaking is by hiding in a corner with an leveled up Found Verdict My grenades rarely kill, my supers somehow miss people, my melees are garbage and then their melees can kill in one hit on full life and shield. I'm constantly getting assists and post-mortems (usually melee) on a 320 Mb/s Download and 20 Mb/s Upload connection. I'm probably never going to play PVP again, it's really terrible.
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1 ReplyHas anyone experienced walking towards a sliding door and the lag is so bad it takes 5 or so seconds to open? Happens all the bloody time to me. Quick bladedancer run away, bam! Straight into a door. :-(
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1 ReplyMadcuzbad!! Only kidding..after puttng 300 plus hrs into bf4 and 200 plus into destiny i agree with OP...OR players dominating due to compensation and TERRIBLE tick rate..ive traded kills more times this past couple days in the banner than 3 months of bf4
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2 Replies[quote]I quit playing BF4 and bought Destiny because, among other major problems, DICE's "latency compensation" system makes it so that the person with the worst connection wins.[/quote] lol the Battlefield cry babies come here and cry about the same crap, face it, you're not good at FPS games and feel the need to blame something besides yourself, you seem to blame 'lag advantage' lol bad players cry more
