All because of the templar fix.
Unless you have an experienced raid team and good weapons the hard mode raid is an excruciatingly painful experience.
Templar is easily the hardest part of the raid. Without the cheese my raid team and I get stuck at templar for hours sometimes. We never cheesed atheon or NM Templar. We only cheesed HM templar to get to the rest of the raid without wanting to throw our ps4s out the window.
The hard raid is no longer worth it imo.
Hopefully bungie get things right with crotas end.
Edit: What I'm trying to say is that HM templar is harder than it should be and sometimes causes so much frustration that I would rather not do the raid at all. I have beat HM templar many times legit. Just sharing my opinion about the fight.
Edit: Didn't think this would cause such a stir.
Reading through the responses has made me realize how toxic this community is.
Apperently opinions aren't welcome here.
Though I did see some light in the darkness.
IE. people respecting my opinion even if they disagreed
Edit: I want to make it clear that I don't like to cheese or ever relied on the cheese. My raid Team and I are very experienced in the VoG and have beat HM templar many times. I just feel templar needs a little tweeking.
If you think I'm just a scrub and I should "get gud" then that's your opinion and I will respect it.
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I think the anger towards this post comes from your argument being essentially "the hard raid isn't fun if I can't use an exploit to nullify one of its major battles." I've cheesed the templar; I've beat him (on hard and normal) "legit". There's no question that the templar fight on hard can be challenging. But it's not glitchy or unfair/random the way the atheon encounter can sometimes be. I think thats where you're losing people here. If there were actual issues with the battle that made it random or unfair, that's one thing. But I don't know what you expect, in terms of a response, when you come onto the forums and post something that basically says you don't feel the Raid is fun unless you can cheese your way through parts of it.