You sir, please step off the pedestal. The Raid and the Raid HM were designed to be extremely challenging puzzles. No information was given on how to beat them or the strategies needed. They had to be figured out. Furthermore there isn't matchmaking, so you have to form your own team. It was built to be an endgame challenge that had to be discovered and conquered. However, BUNGIE/ACTIVISION jacked up and clearly missed A LOT of things in their programming, which led to people finding these ways of beating the Templar, and Atheon that were unintended. Thats not the gamers fault. We figured it out The travesty is they keep changing it. And frankly they are taking team strategy out of it. It's more of a blast your way through now than before. I for one wish they never changed the VOG. I wish they had just sat on their thumbs like good little boys and girls and implemented all they learned from the VOG into Crota's End. Make that one better with less glitches and cheese spots. But once its dropped..... DON't "F" with it! Theres my 2 cents plus a few! Cheers!

Ok. *steps of pedestal* I see what your saying. That people came up with creative ways to complete the raid is indeed good. It shows player ingenuity, and the players who discovered it should be proud. ( Althouhh how much team work can be debated. I mean, technically a single person could have cheesed the Templar.)But I am not upset that the exploits were patched, because from a developers stand point, it must feel like people arn't even playing your game. The cheese ignored all the Templar mechanics completely (except cleansing)! Watching people cheese your bosses would be embarrassing, and be something that you would want to have fixed. As for the OP. He is complaining about the difficulty of the INTENDED raid. Bungie boasted how hard the raid would be before release, and the community accepted the challenge. We stood tall told them to "bring it on!" It was this mentality that got the first team through it on the very first day. And then the cheese happened and people found easy ways to get their rewards. So that mentality was lost. People now come to the forums and complain about the difficulty that we were once proud to tackle! Yes, I want the raid to be harder. And I want to tackle the Dark Below raid without knowing anything about it! Because, I like the challenge. Should Bungie have looked for, and fixed the exploits before release? Yes. But when they came to light, creating the intended game once again was the right move. People need to step back up to the challenge that we once were so excited to test our metal on. To those that don't, I hope the Dark Below chews you a new one. (And I hope to those that do, you get chewed a new one too! But, that you can fight through it, lol.) Oops, somewhere in there I got back up on my pedestal. My bad.

You sir have stepped off your pedestal and delivered an impressive rebuttal that I have not come to expect on this site. I do not agree with everything, but I see your points and can respect that. Cheers to you. I agree that fixing cheeses would have been acceptable. I can handle that. However, that is not all they have done. A fine example of this is randomizing the 3 guardians who are teleported. The original was chosen by them and programmed by them. The sole purpose of changing that was to make the VOG harder, and not to repair an "oops" that they accidentally left out during a rush to deployment. Why was this necessary. They had stated they wanted you to work as a team and develop strategy. There is no longer a strategy to that portion of the raid. It is "okie dokie, it's my turn to grab the relic or kill some oracles." They have made things more complicated in addition to fixing what they originally simply missed. That I cannot appreciate from Bungie. Their intent is wrong in my opinion. It is more about ego now than pride. I think they should be very thorough with Crota's end. I want it to be very hard also, however, I do not want it to be what the Vault has become which is a test of how much ammo you can blast at targets and how good you are with your jump thrusts. Its just a blasting exercise now. I would like to see some challenging changes. Maybe more save points/areas. Add some challenges. Perhaps make the Hard Raid one where if anyone in your fireteam dies during a particular portion, the team wipes instead of continuing. I dunno, they are creative. My final point is somewhat of an addition. If they are to fix the Raids, PLEASE, it would be nice if they fix the bugs before they fix the glitches. It does no good to fix the cheese of Atheon or the Templar, but leave the bugs where it doesnt teleport people, or it teleports too many, or the shield doesn't work. I realize they fixed these now, but these should be the priority. Function over Ego. Anyway, Cheers