you players hate PVP cause you suck. dude its not hard to get good at the crucible! seriously it takes practice and trial and error, once you find a set up you will do outstanding most of the time! you guys just play PVE way too much and because of that, you guys are used to fighting something that has no skill or even a conscious behind it. ill be honest, if i play PVE too much my skills in crucible start to disappear slowly.