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Edited by GouldBerg988:
1/9/2015 9:22:02 AM
693
Do Crota-Kneelists deserve to get banned?
So [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/85926505/0/0]this [/url]Thread clearly explains why the Networkglitch is in a whole other class than all the glitches/cheesing that did go on in the vault:
http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/85926505/0/0
FYI: [b]At least three persons already got banned[/b]
Edit:Bungie updates stats on Crotacompletes
https://twitter.com/bungie/status/546107092885446656
Inb4 Banhammer
EDIT: [b]For all the Naysayers that say Bungie/sony couldn`t possibly distinguish between a random and a deliberate DC.[/b]
1.Lets just assume that there is a time-window of 5 seconds around the point where Crota kneels down to dc on purpose and use the glitch.
2.Let`s further assume that on average the ServiceProviers are reachable for 90% of the time (It`s actually more like 98%, but we will be very generous)
3.Since Crota has been “beaten” more than 160.000 times and a Raidteam consists of 6 people we will say: There are at least 1 Million chances to draw a disconnect during 2 hours (an average Raid takes this time). If we take the 10% from above we can say: 100,000 disconnects happened during all successful Crotaraids up to this point.
So what is the probability that A DC happens randomly at the exact same time Crota goes down?
Calculation:
2*3600/5 = 1440:= potential 5 second-time units of one single player during a successful raid
1,440,000,000= for all players
Ergo
The probability that a DC happens randomly at the moment where crota goes down for any Player is
100,000/1,440,000,000 = 6,94e -5
And for the special case that this DC concerns the Host:
1,16e -5
For comparison:
The Probability of getting a Royal Flush in Poker: 2,57 e-5
Another Hopebubble busted by Math, sorry for that
EDIT 2: I will also link to a prominent youtuber (Datto) that has the same opinion as the vocal group of "[b]It`s a cheat not a chesse[/b]" on this forum. Since he works closely with bungie you can be sure that in one way or the other Glitchers will soon befall a special "Destiny":
[b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O30249lCy1c&t=4m47s[/b]
EDIT 3: This is how a big banwave looked in Halo:Reach (2010) courtesy of Bungie
[quote]Good evening,
We are in the process of applying credit resets to approximately 15,000 users who we have identified as the most egregious Challenge Reset abusers.
A one day credit earning ban has also been applied, mostly to ensure that recipients receive an in-game notification of the action taken.
As with any such measure, we have taken the time to carefully select our criteria to eliminate false positives.
A more comprehensive pass will be occurring in the coming week as our automated Banhammer mechanisms grow accurate enough to satisfy our high bar for burden of proof. If you are thinking about getting an easy 50k credits by using this exploit, I would strongly advise you to reconsider.
Thank you, and please direct any discussion of these resets to this thread.
Edit 1: a point of clarification. No bans were handed out tonight for
a) Playing too much Gruntpocalypse (no such thing!)
b) Using the target locator too much (no such thing!)
Specifically, we targeted an exploit that allowed players to complete a Challenge 20+ times via intentional network manipulation (i.e., disconnects.)
Spot checks have revealed the telltale signature of this behavior on every denier so far, so don't be fooled by the protests of innocence. We aren't.
Edit 2:
1) If you have lost your Legendary Helmet or any other downloadable offers, you can re-download them via your Download History. We're not sure this is affecting anyone (we haven't reproduced it internally), but just in case it is, give this a try.
2) We won't be resetting Commendations, as we do not feel that the exploit used affected them. It would not be fair to people who did use the exploit but who wish to retain the record of their playstyle, and we cannot differentiate between the two systematically. Sorry.
---
Cheaters, be wary of the Credit Reset! [/quote]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/15026193/0/0/1]Source[/url]
[b]EDIT 4: Cheaters have officially gotten a Carte Blanche from a Studio that is a shadow of its former self
Bungie does not kick ass any more. I was a fool and the cheaters have taken over.
I will now make a thread to suggest to ban anyone in the future that tries to make a thread about banning someone.
Bungie clearly voted for the quick buck.
I hope they will live happily ever after with you and your kind.
Signing out ;-)[/b]
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You have to think about this, how hard it is anymore to find a group who will do it legit? I get invited all the time for raid. But when I hear the word cheese or see them doing the cheese, I just sit down out of danger and watch because I'm sick of it
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The Crota raid is stupidly easy anyone who an cheat could do properly so you can't use that as an excuse for a ban. Bungie have left in a shocking amount of glitches it's not the players fault to game is broken and can be cheered. How is freezing Crota nay different to pushing off the Templar in terms of ease and results. No one should be banned for exploiting something bungie left in the game. It is also technically impossible to prove some one or anyone has deliberately dc with out video footage or a confession and for that reason you risk banning a small number of people who just have bad connections. Is that fair? No. At the end of the day it makes absolutely no difference almost anyone is capable of defeating Crota legit all they are really doing is saving time. Get over your self and stop trying to get people banned for nothing your poll has completely backfired and proves the community don't want a ban.
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Well technically since you have to get crota to kneel to damage him, wouldn't that mean everyone gets banned? Anyway i see it as fix and move on
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I do not do the cheese, and I feel it is stupid. Having said that, I don't think that they should be banned. Issues like these are the developer's responsibility to address. If the made a mistake, it is hardly fair to punish players for exploiting it.
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1 ReplyEdited by NomadicMind: 12/30/2014 6:17:06 PMI hope they ban every single one, though I doubt they will. Crota is not difficult, and I have heard people say they took 2 hours trying to get the d/c cheat to work. You could beat the whole raid three times in the same timeframe. Bungie should just look at the disconnect log. If someone was in a fireteam where the leader d/ced more than a couple times in one fight then ban the group. I will give the random d/c and even one or two more to be generous. Past that it is obvious what they are trying to do. There is a large difference between using terrain or game mechanics to win and manipulating the network. Edit: I will say they should do that going forward. I don't think it's fair to ban people who didn't know it was a banable offense, even though I think they should know better.
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This is sad; Crota isn't even hard... People are lazy if they feel this is required for victory.
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2 RepliesI say no simply because its up to the developers to find glitches & patch them... seems like they need to hire some of these guys who find the glitches as testers
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2 RepliesBetter than a temp ban or anything else the Ninjas could carry out. I think, that these "kneelists" (or at least excessive kneelists, you can tell from stats) should get a month-long permanent shader and emblem attached to their character ^.^ maybe the ugliest solid brown shader, and a smelly piece of poop for an emblem. sorta like the "bad sport servers" from gta5. discuss.
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That's why every other game of this ilk that has raids test them for months before release on a PTS(public test server if you don't know) that way glitches are found and fixed before release in this case they have just skimped on cost and used the live server as the test, so bans would be inappropriate. If anything their internal play test team should be sacked as they're missing every raid breaking glitch thus far.
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While it may seem possible to detect quitters, the fact remains that there would be too much grey area to distinguish between people who intentionally quit or simply got disconnected for whatever reason. This is the very reason COD players who dashboard when they are host to completely shutdown a given match for the sake of preventing a loss (as well as griefing other players) NEVER resulted in a ban in the many years that COD has been out. It'a a headache they will not choose to deal with.
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I posted this on a different ppst but it is relavent here as well: Even if it was considered a violation of the TOS (which is unlikely), nobody will get banned. I personally prefer to do it legit. I have about 15 clears, with 3-4 of those being cheeses do to various reasons (people running out of time, randoms just not being able to pull it together and reset is coming up, playing with friends who all want to do it, etc...). First, Bungie is not going to ban those who cheese primarily because they would end up banning a large percentage of players who actually do the raids. I cant speak for all, but if I was banned, I would just forget about Destiny and play something else. Not very good for the bottom line (which, lets face it, is Bungies and Activsions main focus). Secondly, it is my understanding that network manipulation refers to actually manipulating the network through means not available on the system ( such as a lag switch or modded console). Disconnecting from the internet, which is an option on the console (atleast ps4, not 100% sure about xbox) doesnt really count at network manipulation as you are not really manipulating the network, just your connection to the network. Finally, this exploit has little effect on the pvp portion of the game (perhaps iron banner to an extent, but it is minimal). Some people have mentioned Bungie banning players in halo, but this was do to exploits in the pvp, not pve. Bungies main concern (atleast it appears to be) is making sure players do not have an unfair advantage over others. If someone figured a way to have the host leave and it give an unfair advantage in pvp (or by some other method), then their would likely be bans. This is just my take however. I will continue to try to do the raid legit whenever possible and chese when needed. Ill just hope my assumptions are correct, otherwise ill be heading to bestbuy or gamespot.
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Perhaps the creators should have made a game sans glitches.
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Seeing as i cant find many groups that want to do it legit i think I've had two and i had to look for a long time for One so i say if bungie says its ban-able like unlimited revives in pvp for warlock a while back than yes
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ActuAlly they should be rewarded! They're showing bungie all the things they need to fix in the raid, and that sir is not a bad thing
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2 RepliesIf they ban people for cheesing theyre going to lose alot of their playerbase. They should post an update saying starting at this time it will be a bannable offense if its bannable.
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1 ReplyI would be willing to bet about 90% of people who completed Crota used this method...
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They need to fix the exploit because I'm really tired of just doing the kneel down cheese when Crota isn't even that hard. People refuse to do him legit!
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3 RepliesI was in a group and they made someone leave the fire team when Crota started kneeling. He then came back and killed Crota without any trouble. This took a few minutes overall. Is this the kneeling glitch being referred to?
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I think it's funny how I see people intentionally lagging in crucible to get kills and nobody says they should get banned. As soon as a PVE boss gets killed because of a glitch now everybody who has done it should get banned? The game is working as intended. Nobody is modifying bungie's game code to make this happen. It is the result of a disconnect. Probably was discovered because destiny's servers are always kicking you from the game anyway. Turning off your game or Internet is not a modification that's just common sense. People who feel a way about, well that's your own personal issue. Just because you have a problem with the way somebody else plays a game doesn't mean they should get banned. You can just as easily play the game the way you want or not play at all. Stop trying force other people to do it the way you want. It's not that serious.
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Haven't done the raid yet but what's a kneelist?
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A temporary ban is what this calls for. Network manipulation isn't okay.
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5 RepliesHahaha bungie isn't going to ban anyone. Honestly people, so many people have "cheesed" crota. That's ALOT of damn people to ban. almost half of the people will be banned and there goes their profit. You honestly think bungie will take that risk. ? Uh no . Haha people stop with these stupid posts about ban
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If this bothers people so much. When you do a LFG crota raid. Type in (No Cheese Group) and wait for a real raid team to pick you up. Im not sure why people do this. I understand the templar in VOG because he was not hard but time consuming. However Crota is neither. The time people do the glitch from what I hear from a guy we picked up on LFG he said our group took out crota fast then his last random group doing the knee glitch. Whatever tho, people worry to much about what others do that have zero affect on yourself. I think this is also the point to delaying hard mode. They can fix theses kinks and make a better part2 raid. Again find a REAL raid group and if you have a good run without cheesing ask to see if you can add them for future raids. There will always be " SCUMS" in life and in video games. Find a non scummy group. That is all
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3 RepliesPushing an enemy off a platform was the unintended results of the way the game is designed. Bungie had no intention of allowing this to happen, so they fixed it, but they also know that pre-baby bumper kills this way are legitimate because the game was designed with the ability to push enemies around. That's why we didn't see a round of bans from it. Crota kneeling/disconnect is a different problem. You're not making an enemy fall to his death, you're actually manipulating the server. It's not a hack but it is a legitimate cheat. Plenty have explained why, and they're right. It is manipulating a bug that's not only unintended but also has nothing to do with the gameplay itself. I was part of a team that did it once and I honestly would never do it again. I want to play the game and enjoy myself. That wasn't enjoyable. It was boring and felt cheap. I haven't even done the raid since then because people only seem to want to do that. So I haven't raided.
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1 ReplyBan? Why... Exploits, whether cheating or cheesing, are exploits. Exploits too, that don't even effect you. Destiny is a game where you sometimes have to play smart rather than hard... I have beaten Crota without cheesing and it was tiring. I felt glad that I did but then grinding something so tiring, so exhausting, and having to compile decent groups of guardians to do it... Sometimes cheesing was a relief. Truthfully didn't even know how to cheese until some friends showed me yesterday. Let Bungie fix the exploit, and until the next exploit maybe you all will quit crying about it. I will continue to play, with or without cheese, I will continue to enjoy playing with people either way... It may not be the way it's meant to be played, but it ain't some ban worthy hack... Everyone let bungie fix whatever is broken and mind your own business. Everything in this game is random anyways - it's not like you earn anything or work hard for something. My fiancé who plays once every month maybe, has 2 exotics, had several legendary drops and FYI, a team carried her through VOG and she got Vex Mytho.... Needless to say - doesn't matter if you cheese or not - RNG makes it pointless. You could cheese 100 times and not get something. Just saying people need to have fun and stop thinking they are earners and better than others who cheese.
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If they ban people for this that means one thing. Bungie is lazy and couldn't fix their own damn game. P.s you don't have to pull your cord out. YOU CAN JUST QUIT THE GAME. Unless they are banning anyone who quits a game I don't see that happening. Why? Because the game destiny is broken and give to many error codes that does what to players? Kicks them off destiny...exactly. Why doesn't bungie ban themselves for creating such a terrible raid. With out cheese this raid takes less time and is easier than VOG. What kind of sense does that make? Now stop being a hall monitor and worry about yourself.
