So you seriously object to doing a raid at 30? you are a dumbass, when the raid was released every one was a 29 or 30 doing it, and many groups completed it successfully. Without being a level 31. And like I said, no one forces you to cheese, you make that choice on your own, when I set up a raid group, now that I am a level 31 and I like to make my raids fast so I make sure to only let 31's in my raid group. and guess what man, just because someone is a level 31 doesn't mean they have a -blam!-ing clue. The bottom line is, the cheese has no effect on you unless you let it. If I get on tonight and cheese crota in 4 minutes, and you get on and run the same raid legit and win. did I have any effect on your game? The answer to that question is No. You can say level 31 is handed to you all you want, but you still have to grind out marks, which are still capped at 100 a week and 200 total, and you still have to grind out rank. so it isn't really handed to you, they set it up that way so you would spend more time playing their game to get decent gear, gear that not so long after I got it I broke it down. So supporting morons like the guy of who started this thread makes you look just as dumb assuming other people can affect your game that way.

meh... well see when hard mode comes out if they leave all the cheese methods in place. then we'll have this conversation all over again when your getting frustrated as hell cause your groups simply cannot be crota cause they spent so much time cheesing him they simply can't handle the normal way!

And don't act like this was even a challenge, I had full raid gear before I ever heard about the cheese. Besides, this game has nothing more to offer me even after the hard mode is released. Play the SAME -blam!-ING RAID over and over again with a shit chance at getting good gear on an even harder mode just to have nothing else to do after that until the "next dlc"? I think I will take my chances playing other games that offer a story, and actually listen to the gamers who spend money on their product rather than a company holding back on a games true potential as a full release just to make more money from the "DLC". They have lost every bit of respect from me. so reply or not, it doesn't matter, because neither my voice nor yours will ever be heard by Bungie.

[quote]If I get on tonight and cheese crota in 4 minutes, and you get on and run the same raid legit and win. did I have any effect on your game? [/quote] The answer is yes. Does it directly affect me no, does it devalue the item, yes In this type of game the best gear is suppose to be gained through the toughest challenges. overall, its the reason you're TRYING to level up! By having cheeses in the game and not fixing them you basically are giving away the best loot for very little challenge. Only atheon dropped the VEX and it was suppose to be a challenging item to acquire. however, the pushing of atheon made it so any scrub could get it so long as he could throw a grenade. If you don't like the system the way it is "suppose" to be there are hundreds of other games to play. So as i said earlier I hope we cheese the hell outa normal mode and fix them all up when hard mode comes out.