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2/3/2015 4:23:27 PM
2
The orbs do not disappear post death. The orbs being pumped out by the gunslingers are also scattered sufficiently to allow the defenders to recoup and be up on running on less than a minute.
In theory, perhaps it is possible to pop the bubbles but with the blessing and armor stacking these guys are tough to kill and a full team wipe is unlikely. Again, the orbs of light on the ground do not disappear after death, at most a striker fist would just scatter them around a bit.
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My orbs disappear after death in PvE, is PvP different? Anyway, perhaps making the orbs disappear after death is a way to slightly nerf this tactic without making it ineffective or game changing.
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Orbs act in much the save way instanced ammo works. It stays in the ground until you wipe, which doesn't happen in PvP.
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My orbs disappear when I die, not when I (or we) wipe. Every death, every single death, orbs all gone. Use my resurrect on warlock? Orbs gone when I resurrect. Orbs, all gone. Perhaps I have a bug?
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You don't ever see the orbs that you generate, only the ones your teammates do. Whenever you generate orbs, other players see them drop off of you and even after they die, they can pick them up.
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I mean, the orbs that [i]other people[/i] generate for [b]me[/b] disappear on death, and if this happened in PvP, then you couldnt fill up on orbs after you had died. See what I mean?
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Fine. 2 gunslingers. One waits til they come back. And this is still all with 3 more ppl not coordinating their supers.
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The orbs never disappear, though. Have as many gunslingers as you want, you can only hold them off for so long. Once they get enough orbs to get the supers back up, it'll be the same tune sung all over again while the team without a bubble village has to endure for another few minutes to get their supers back. It's pretty damn unstoppable, and when it is thwarted the victory comes at a high cost and doesn't last. I'd love to see a hard counter to this, but I expect the counter to be another bubble village with a striker to wreck the first one.
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Regardless, the point isn't to keep them from getting their super. Its to get them separated and ideally, force them to use their super while separated. It only works if you're letting them group up. If they had gotten scattered (or even just a few killed) at the beginning, they could've spent the whole match trying to regroup.
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First if they went in with the intent and the team composition and gear layout to enable infinite supers in the first place it is highly doubtful they would panic super at spawn to save themselves (they could just take the death and respawn closer to simply their teammates). Second, in order to keep them separated you'd have to have incredible control over the spawn points while also managing where the enemy team is and fight both away the same time. All they have to do is group up again and let it roll. The difference in skill that takes is enormous, and if they screw up, no problem try again. If lone ranger makes a mistake there goes the game. There is a chance for this method to be stopped, but it would be an uphill battle the whole way and there's no guarantee they couldn't just get right back into it.
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I doubt this is going to become the OP tactic that ppl think it is.
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It's not going to be common, but it is OP. Coordinating 4 defenders all with the crest of alpha lupi, and getting a pair of gunslingers to orbit isn't going to be the easiest thing. But then again going through the steps to get the Vex Mythoclast weren't easy, but look what happened to that when it was absolutely melting people when it first hit the crucible.
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Yes, its OP, but then any good teamwork is OP. I do think they could fine tune it but I reckon its how the game should be. A team using supers to dominate the other team? Yes please. Its like when people were bitching about shotguns being OP in crucible, which they are clearly not. There is a post (a bad one) about how OP the Fist of Havok is, which is laughable. I know ppl that say the VexM is STILL too OP, but Iv never had problems facing one. My bro thinks the Bladedancer is too OP. Perhaps some fine tuning, yes, but I dont think this breaks the game, I think it adds to it.
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Good teamwork being OP and this kind of OP are two completely different tiers. This is about as fair as spawn camping (you know the kind where all I have to do is hold down the trigger and enemies spawn into my bullets). What is interesting about having 4 titans spamming their supers, and 2 other guardians feeding off of it? I tried to come up with exciting examples of exploiting game mechanics that make PvP more exciting in games, buy none come to mind.
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No, its not, because you can only do this WITH TEAMWORK! And its very different from holding down a button to spawnkill, its a very bad example to use. "I tried to come up with exciting examples of exploiting game mechanics that make PvP more exciting in games, buy none come to mind." Looks like you wont be finding the way to break this little tactic then. I too fail at finding interesting and original ways of exploiting game mechanics. We can cry together.
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The positive spin doesn't make your example any stronger. Also the spawn trap is a beautiful example. It too takes teamwork. Each team member must know where to stand and where to aim. Getting the opponents into the trap takes forethought and map knowledge. And once you get it rolling, you're on the big money. Calling this exciting is not true, I don't anybody watching this from the defenders perspective was too thrilled watching a guy Ginyu posing for the duration of the match. And watching a gunslinger with infinite golden gun is hardly a skill showcase. Sure its interesting to see that they've come up with this strategy as much as the people that found the new crota cheese within hours of the hotfix.
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I didnt give an example, unless you mean me mentioning ppl moaning about whats supposedly OP i.e. Bladedancer, vex, etc etc Its not a spawn trap. Its spawnraping and it doesnt take teamwork. Im not sure you have ever actually seen spawnraping in a game! You dont get opponents "into the trap" you stand looking where ppl [b]always[/b] spawn and shoot as soon as they appear. One man effort. Now a whole team of spawnrapers, thats annoying, but again, no team effort, just individuals that know spawn points. A terrible example, please dont use it again. Its starting to sound like your just moaning. Next week there will be a vid of like, 2 people, taking out these bubble fortresses (made that up, like it?) with consummate ease! Lets see how this plays out, I think it can only be good for the game.
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This is no different than if the opposing team simply killed the gunslingers right after they popped their super a couple times. You're basically saying "This can only be beat if your team is better than theirs". Which I thought went without saying.
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What I'm saying is there is no real counter. The only way to effectively stop it is to get one working on your team. Unless your team has a perfectly coordinated super attack combo to kill all the titans, and defend the area where the orbs might be(it'll be hard to tell where the orbs are on their screen), you're up a creek without a super and time is ticking. Also you'd have to come into the game with a hard counter team composition focused on bubble bursting, any defenders bladedancers and sunsingers are dead weight.
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I dont think you have to mimic it to beat it. One thing I learned playing vs humans in ANY game, they do unexpected things and find solutions. And... if they make orbs despawn on death, problem solved. They'd have to stay alive to make this work.
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After watching multiple videos of this team in different scenarios I can tell you they are incredibly hard to rout. Also I'm almost certain that orbs only despawn after a set time and are not despawned on death (the only reason I'm not saying 100% is because I don't have a video or source to reference).
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Despawn orbs on death would be good tho right? And you are only seeing one side of this i.e. the vids they succeeded on. Media is a lie, remember that.
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This is why everyone thinks its unbeatable. You don't want to kill the titans. You want to kill the attackers. After they super, but before they make orbs. If you do this twice, then take down the titans, its a while before they're back in businesses. The video makes it look simple because its executed well, and the opposing team did nothing about it. If the attackers die without making more orbs for the titans, their fun is over.
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Perhaps you missed this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzdpJaDdn08 go to 4:35. That's why it's pretty unbeatable, see for yourself.
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There's still numberous ways. What I would do in this instance: Have the entire team group up & simply wait 40-70 seconds before going over there. As this guy watches his gunslinger run out twice without anyone to shoot. Then a couple go where he can see you, buy only long enough for him to pop it again. Within 2 mins he either runs out of orbs, or gets impatient and leaves bubble safety. I feel like you never even tried to think of a counter before declaring there isn't one.
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Did you watch the video? Did you listen to the team speak? The strategy isn't something that was accidented together, so to come up with a counter that relies on team stupidity is [b]not[/b] an effective counter. A solid counter anticipates them playing toward the strat, that means the defenders will spam the WoD and the gunslingers will be in the bubbles to gain their golden gun and pop out to get kills and defend. A counter to the strat would have to get past 2 golden guns and smash 4 bubbles and control the ground where the orbs are instanced which after dropping a fist of havoc could be anywhere. If I'm playing it up too much, it's a much bigger bill than you are making it for sure. It's not a simple matter of pop the bubbles, case closed. If you have chosen to ignore the fact I found an alternate video on another map with a different perspective showing orbiting (if a little impatient) gunslingers and an instance when all the bubbles go down and come right back up, I don't think it's worth debating this further.
