Theories

[b]Xúr [u]a theory[/u][/b] Xúr agent of the nine. Xúr is actually a worm or ahamakara. The Xúr we see in the tower is actually just a agent of Xúr while Xúr is a member of the nine. The reason I think this is because all the worms have one thing in common, a three letter name. The agent of the nine we see in the tower says a few things that support this theory. "My will is not my own" and then another thing he says is "It was my will to speak to you." The first saying is definitely the Xúr we see in the tower, and the second is from Xúr the ahamakara. As you see Xúr the ahamakara is speaking saying he wanted to come to the tower, while Xúr in the tower is not here because he wants to. Xúr the one we see in the tower is some alien species could be human, could be psion, or could be awoken mind controlled by the worm, as we see if you look at his face you see something that looks like the worm in Oryx's chest. Edit1: even more proof These are some quotes that I have heard Xúr say. 1: [b]"We came up from the dust, and burrowed into flesh for warmth, and became... something new."[/b] if that doesn't sound like a worm or ahamakara I don't know what does 2:[b]"There are no birds where I came from. The things that fly... are like shadows."[/b] this sounds like ahamakara. Like Xúr is saying that ahamakara are on his world.

[i]So I've been doing some digging and I put together a timeline for some of the major events in Destiny's lore. There is more information the closer it is to modern age.[/i] [u]Timeline[/u] [b]Pre-Golden Age[/b] [spoiler]Humanity was near its end. Earth was becoming a environmentally hostile planet. There was little left to discover and so much known. Humanity learned they knew nothing after finding the Traveler and began a new era of discovery: The Golden Age.[/spoiler]_____ [b]Golden Age[/b] [spoiler]The environmental effects of the Golden Age drastically changed the Earths atmosphere within a single generation. Planets in the solar system were repositioned and terraformed. Massive constructive undertakings and social movements took place. New life forms sprouted into existence on the Earth. Although diseases and famines were eradicated, peace was not Global. Artificial Intelligence technology started to develop which started civil conflicts. The arrival of the Darkness drew near, marking the end of the Golden Age and the start of the Dark Age.[/spoiler]_____ [b]Dark Age[/b] [spoiler]New plagues and famines came to be as the great cities of the Golden Age began to die out. Awokens came out from the corners of space and Exos started to wake rusted with unclear memory of their origins. Ghosts were sent out from within The Traveler, birthing an era of Guardians: wielders of Light. These first Guardians were Titans. Beyond the Traveler, hostile alien races roam the wilderness. The Fallen were the first to be encountered after the collapse. Few civilizations remained after the collapse. Many survivors would begin to migrate to and seek refuge underneath The Traveler in the last safe city on Earth. As the survivors took refuge, Guardian Hunters explored beyond the city. This is where the story of The Last Word begins, as Jaren Ward arrives at Palamon. It is also here where Shin Malphur begins his story. Guardians successfully defended against the first coordinated assault on the last safe city in the Battle of the Six Fronts. The great walls of the City were erected, sheltering a diverse civilization filled with many cultures from the outside invaders; Beginning the City Age.[/spoiler]_____ [b]City Age[/b] [spoiler]This was the age The Speaker was rumored to have received his mask and where Warlocks began recovering forgotten secrets of the past. Osiris was one of the first among the Warlocks. The Tower is constructed to house the Vanguard and the Guardians who protect the City. Many Guardian heroes and legends begin through the battle of Twilight Gap, such as the Iron Lords, Saint-14, Zavalla, and Lord Shaxx. Dregen Yor taints his legacy after becoming corrupted with Darkness. Soon leading him to murder Jaren Ward. He later parts from his Ghost which is later found dead on Mars, leaving him susceptible to death. Shin Malphur, along with Jaren Ward's Last Word and Ghost, track down Dregen Yor at Dwindler's Ridge. It is unknown wether either one was killed. The Great Ahamakara Hunt begins. Warlocks and Hunters supposedly extinct the species despite the secrets they held. A power struggle arises among the many Factions within the civilization, starting the event known as the Faction Wars. After many battles, a truce is formed among the great Factions which includes New Monarchy and Dead Orbit. Future War Cult takes the third seat in the City's consensus in place of The Concordat lead by Lysander, after rejecting The Symmetry lead by Ulan Tan. An assault to reclaim the Moon ends horrifically after Crota and his army destroy those who set foot on the Moon's surface. Toland later becomes obsessed with Hive arcana which drives him mad and sends him banished. All expeditions beyond Earth are cancelled and outworld territories withdrawn as the Vanguard put their focus further fortify the City. The Light grows stronger as the Guardians and Citizens rekindle lost Golden Age techniques and advances. An age of recovery begins with you, the Guardians of the New Age.[/spoiler]_____

That new monarchy has a cloning machine. Think about it in their grimour it says that if no leader can be found one must be created. Maybe it's not a cloning machine maybe it is a exo factory or maybe something like breeding facilities, but what ever it is it something very powerful.

I have a theory that the exos were once human It says in the collectors edition journal that cayde-6 was once "flesh and bone" [quote]Saturn. No, someplace else. Someplace colder. This moon has been almost completely converted, a sarcophagus of ice and iron. Stone towers rung round with glaciers, rooted deep within a heart of snow. I came here flesh and bone. Gave everything to the ice. Started over. Rebooted.[/quote] http://www.destinypedia.com/Cayde%27s_Treasure_Island_Book And in the grimiore card ghost fragment: exo it says [quote]- which in the end is just a matter of substrate chauvinism. It doesn't matter if the system thinks with flesh or superconductor or topological braids in doped metallic hydrogen, as long as the logic is the same. And our logic is the same. Yours and mine. If I am a machine then so are you. If you are not a machine then neither am I. Exo minds are human. It is incontrovertible. You understand? I'm going to take that slack-jawed stare as understanding. Now here's the real question. Why are Exo minds human? What's the design imperative? Why does a war machine - yes, absolutely, I am a war machine, built by human hands; and you are a survival machine built by the engine of evolution. Don't interrupt me. Why does a war machine have emotions? Why should a war machine have awareness? These are not useful traits on the battlefield. Don't flatter yourself. They are not useful. So why should the Exo mind mimic the human architecture so closely? You know what I smell on you? I smell the stink of anthropocentrism. I think you think that there's only one way to think. That's why the Exo mind is so human, you presume. Because all higher thought converges. My friend, you should meet the Vex. There is nothing human in them. Now. This is what I believe happened, back in the time before any Exo can remember. It explains everything. [b]I think someone wanted to live forever.[/b][/quote] http://destiny-grimoire.info/#Card-102150 At this point i am fairly certain that exos were humans that used mind uploading or some other method to transfer their consciousness to a robotic body. I apologize if my first post in this group isnt of the best quality, if you have any feedback, comments, or information that supports or disproves my theory id love to hear it.

[b]my version of the toland theory[/b] The three queens that he talks about are actually not what most people think instead each is something different. The first that is lovely and for the arts is the light. The second that is lawful and just is the darkness. And the last that is cruel is atoms. If you read the card this kind of makes sense. He talks about how atoms won the first war and how the third queen won the first war. He also talks about how a new queen will rise and will rule with an iron fist the darkness. [b] things this means[/b] One we are the light, not just that we have the light but we are the light. Instead of atoms we are made of light. The opposite goes for vex and hive as they are darkness. The fallen and cabal make up the last category atoms. If you read the grimour you would understand that the fallen where once a great people, and the cabal where once great warriors.

[b][u]Toland's Universe[/u][/b] Before he (presumably) met his fate at the hands of Crota within the Hellmouth, Toland the Shattered documented his understanding of the Universe into a single philosophy. I will attempt to summarise this philosophy and its many implications below. [u]Universal Darwinism[/u] Imagine the Universe (both ours and the Destiny Universe) as a single continent. Upon this continent are three countries of equal size and population. Each country is led by a Queen. The first Queen is both wise and beautiful, and her people flourish in the fields of science and art. The second Queen is just and fair, and her people live in peace and law. The third Queen is neither wise and beautiful, or just and fair. Instead, she raises and army and conquers the other Queens. Who wins? Ultimately the third Queen wins. Even though she is foul and her people suffer, they endure. That is the Hive. Survival above all. Perhaps, Toland speculates, our Golden Age was unique. Perhaps in some Universes the Queens co-operate, all prospering while the third guards the continent. That was Humanity. "A circle ringed with spears", Toland names it. But even the circle can not survive if attacked by an entire continent of the third Queen. That is how the Golden Age ended. [b][u]Necrocracy[/u][/b] But where does the cycle stop? When the third Queen owns the continent, what then? She destroys all the continents around her. In the end, the Queen creates a world where nothing that is not hers exists, a Universe where the guilty are destroyed before they know their crime. That is the Vex. Purity through singularity. But, Toland reasons, what are Guardians? We, and the Hive, and the Vex, are the same; each destroys the other so it might be alone in power. What if our roles were reversed? What if we invaded the Hive and ruined their Golden Age? Toland states that this is fair, just as the atom rose from the Big Bang as the primary form of matter, the Hive's crusade against the Light is fair, because we would have done the same in their position. The Universe is Chaos. Chaos is Fair.

Destiny seems to toy with TIME a great deal. i have this feeling our story will revolve heavily around paradoxes or the alternate time line the "stranger" has created. i don't know how to put it; the opening scene sees mulitple versions of the same event, in ours we defeat the heart of the black garden while it may be that in the "stranger's" it was not. VOG is another example (i know there's more) which makes me think this war will be more complex and involve time. just a thought.

(My first and favourite theory) I was inspired by the speculation in the comments on my last theory to elaborate upon the strange relationship the Vex and the Hive have with the Darkness. The Fallen are pirates and scavengers, albeit with a rather confrontational attitude about it, and the Cabal seem to have their own agenda, but the other two seem to be directly working for or as the Darkness itself. The Theory The Hive, as evidenced by Grimoire Card entries (thanks to Fez PY for bring that to my attention) use weapons and powers that are actually GIVEN to them by the Dark. Shredders have no firing mechanisms, Wizards pull powers from the Darkness much like Guardians draw strength from the Traveller's Light. The Vex, however, are not as gifted. The Vex's weapons do pull their ammunition from somewhere/when, in a similar fashion to the Hive, but the Vex reek of anti-theism; Atheon's name is derived from atheist, or godlessness, and they seem to replace the Hive's religious fanaticism with transcendent technology. "But that makes no sense! The Vex were WORSHIPPING the Heart of the Black Garden and their best fighters are named Zealots, surely this points to them worshipping the Darkness?" I thought. Then, I hit upon a new idea: The Vex don't worship the Darkness, they copy it and seek to replace it. Its a radical idea, but the Exo Stranger's words "Darkness so evil it hates other Darkness" stuck with me. The Vex worship themselves, they seek to become Gods. For all we know, the Vex built the Black Garden (they seem to be the only race there or trying to get there) and the Heart might be their own creation. This wouldn't be their first, or last, attempt to build a God; Atheon's Grimoire states that the Vex wish to worm into the very fabric of creation, much in the way whatever rules the Hive seems to. They're close as well, manipulation of time has given them similar abilities. Ultimately, though, these questions can never be answered until we visit a planet or moon where both the Vex and Hive meet (Mercury, anyone?) and observe their interactions. If they fought, it might justify my theory that the Hive were chosen by the Darkness and are gifted their strength that the Vex now seek to emulate. The idea that the Vex seek godlike powers is hinted in the Grimoire cards of the Templar and, if interpreted that the Garden's Heart is a Vex creation, the Sol Progeny as well. My final piece of evidence is located in Crota's own Grimoire Card written by Ikora (a greater font of information I know not) in which, at the very end, she links Hive Netherworlds to the Vex Gate system. The Hive and their worlds are created by the Darkness who seem to have chosen the Hive as their champions, the Vex's trans temporal dimensions seem to be of their own design. In conclusion, I bring us back to the words of the Exo Stranger "Darkness so evil it hates other Darkness". Notice how her greatest fear is the Vex, not the Hive who are in a prime location to invade Earth. Perhaps in her future, the Vex become their own Dark Gods. If so, the future bodes ill for both the Light and the Dark.

Alright, so my theory goes something like this... There have been many rumors about the Vex, about their time traveling abilities, the black garden, the vault of glass, their immense technological advantage to every other group currently known to the average guardian, but maybe, there more "Human" than we originally thought. Take this scenario: Hundreds, Thousands, maybe even Millions of years later from the current Destiny year, Humanity has advanced further than anyone could have thought, but they see that they are alone in this universe, except for the darkness they still fight. Humanity collectively moans a sigh of loneliness, no one to share what they've learned with, no one to watch over, and for some, no one to use. As is naturally human, there are still people who believe in a god or gods, and they don't believe we were meant to be alone. They begin using their advanced technology to try and summon the god they believe in, and one day, their prayers are answered, but this is no god. It is a dark force from another dimension, some would go as far as saying this would be the Hive, but I believe it would be an evolved form of hive, much more dangerous than the ones we fight today. The humans naturally do everything it says, and start fighting people in the systems surrounding them. Soon the dark power demands that they grow stronger, and they use advanced technology to augment their bodies and give themselves super human abilities. By the time anyone notices it as a problem, they have too much power, own too much land, and are too strong to fight. This group enslaves all of their captives and makes them like themselves, cyborgs, under control by their supposed god. This endless campaign seems, well, endless until the last group of enemies makes their own version of a god. Something man made, created by flesh and blood, as well as technology. They give it all of the knowledge they have in a last chance attempt to save mankind. I know what your thinking. Your first question is "But the vex are robots, not cyborgs!" and you would actually be wrong. On a Venus story mission your ghost actually says that, quote on quote, "Vex mind cores are actually biological!" This proves my point enough that far. The ghost also says in that mission, "It doesn't match any known life on the database." That's because the humans millions of years in the future have evolved, and changed, therefore the ghost couldn't match them. Anyway, back to the story. The last strands of humanity in the universe, pressured by their enemies and their new threats, start researching time travel, so they can send their creation back, and make humanity strong, or, find someone to protect it. Humanity makes a gate, that once on travels through it, they will be taken back to a certain point in time. There is, of course, a huge battle in space to stop the creation from traveling back, the Vex and the last of Humanity fight in the largest battle in the known history of the Universe up to this date. With humanity losing, and the gate in danger, one brave Exo has an idea. She tells the traveler to give them the knowledge it holds, so they may have mercy. It works, and the Vex cease fire, for about 5 minutes. They issue this information to their collective minds, and decide there is one logical plan of action. Though it may change the course of everything that has ever happened in the universe, they decide the only way to stop this from happening is exterminating the human race, before they summon the hive beast. They also now know that the hive is their enemy, and attack their false god, which causes him to call in his soldiers. The two armies fight, and unfortunately, the human army is exterminated in the cross fire. The brave Exo from before decides she has to go back in time with human kind's creation to ensure human kind's safety. At the time that the two go through the portal, it start destabilizing, and the battle becomes a rush to get as many soldiers in that portal as possible before it collapses. all of the vex and hive that made it through had a battle, and the hive won, exterminating the Vex foe. But, a few Vex cruisers were in the portal when it collapsed, and were put into a place outside of space and time. They used the knowledge the creation gave them (known to us as "The Traveler") and made their own dimension, where they ruled. They even made their own god, that resided in their black garden. They also realized they lived in a place of infinite possibility, and they made their own rules, and other portals to leave that place and go to any time or place they wanted, a useful tool for what they were trying to do, stop humanity before it kills itself. The hive that made it through made it back to their dimension, where they told their ancestors of their situation, and agreed to help them find the traveler, so they can destroy it control the future, and past. On their travels they meet the cabal, and either scare, enslave, or pay them into working for them. After thousands of years, The Traveler finds the fallen, and teaches them the knowledge they need to fight back the Hive. Unfortunately, The Fallen were not ready to fight both the Hive and Cabal, and the traveler retreated, with the fallen following, only to be destroyed. They then teamed up with a small group of the Cabal and ran away towards the traveler, where they hoped they could find refuge. Eventually , around 2050-2075, The traveler is found on mars, and the golden age begins, the collapse happens, the city is built, everything happens normally considering the current story of Destiny, except for one thing. When they Vex time travel and change something, they create two realities, one where something was changed, and one where something wasn't. These changes have tremendous influence on how things play out in a given reality. There is one reality where the Vex changed nothing, and that is the reality that results in the death of the human race, and there is another reality that the Vex change everything and the human race also dies. The traveler knows this, so it makes the guardians. Guardians are the only beings in reality that can change the path of a reality without making another one. It really does bring new meaning to the phrase "guardians make their own Destiny." Anyway, the guardians must collectively fight back against the darkness, defeat the hive, prove wrong the Vex, make peace with the Fallen and rouge Cabal, fight the real Cabal, and stop the future humans from summoning the Hive in the first place. Sounds like one hell of a DLC, huh? But that brings up some questions, like, if there was no Hive in the future, would the traveler ever be made? Well, maybe that's what the shifting picture in the games intro represented, the Traveler being sent back to every reality to stop the darkness, and if so, is that the travelers life now? taking bullets, giving knowledge, being hunted, and then, at the end of the day, doing it all over again? If we don't keep sending the traveler back will we cease to exist? Or will we just be different people. Is it even possible to save every reality, with the Vex opening and closing doors all the time? Only time will tell. And just remember, Guardians Make Their Own Destiny.

(This is a repost of my original Hive Theory) The Theory Before we fought Crota in The Dark Below, we faced his invasive lieutenants on the surface, namely his Eyes, Hand, Fist, Will, Might and Soul (there may be more I haven't mentioned, but the point I will make is the same). We also face the Swarm Princes, abeit in the vanilla game, who are basically his children. This is one theory; the power of the Hive "Gods" is determined by their followers' worship. Notice how Crota never "died" on the Moon? When he first invaded nothing killed him, yet he became ethereal. This coincides with the construction of the Hellmouth. This, for me, has a shocking truth; the Hive "Gods" are not real, they are worshipped into existence by the Hallowed Hive. Notice how the Hive are constantly praying, begging the Darkness to bring these horrors to life. The leaders of that Swarm name themselves for a certain God and ask the Darkness to create him. Crota disappeared when he took the Moon, why? For me, the answer is that he was taken back by the Darkness. The Hive then bargained with the Dark, to destroy Earth and it's light, to see their champion again. This is basically the Darkness manipulating the Hive into exterminating the Light for the price of seeing one of their Gods in the flesh. Shockingly, this shows that the Darkness is able to create Gods and does so to manipulate races. The Vex cannot understand the Heart of Darkness in the Black Garden, so they chose to worship and obey it. The Hive obey the Darkness because it can show them divinity of their design. The Cabal are invaders but are hinted to be running from something, maybe this is the Darkness pushing them to destroy the Light and the Fallen are scavengers with a reverence for anything they can't steal from. This explains Crota, the Heart of the Black Garden, and possibly the Traveller, as being manifestations of Darkness and Light, warring against one another for a reason. Could the Traveller be manipulating Humanity into fighting the Darkness with the promise of another Golden Age, our primary reason for it's defence?

Hey, I'm new and I'm going to be spending most of my time here on the Theories post. I may transcript a few of my previous theories from my previous group.