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originally posted in:TFS The Floods Sanctuary
7/15/2013 7:15:53 PM
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If time travel existed...

How do you think it would work? From what I noticed, most movies and shows have one of these two approaches to time travel; Being able to change the present. Like in Looper, where if you went back and changed something, it would effect the current present. This concept kind of confuses me, I mean, it should make more sense because if you went back and done something differently, naturally you would expect your presented to be affected depending on your actions. However in Looper, they used time travel to send your older self back to be killed by your younger self, so when you done that, then got old once again, would your younger selves keep killing your older selves? Will there be never ending yous and keep living different lives each time? Then there's the whatever you done while time traveling, had already happened, and you cannot change the present no matter what, approach. I think I like this one more, because while you're experiencing it for the first time, you weren't aware that you actually played a part in what happened in the past. Seems more interesting to me and less confusing, because it doesn't matter what you attempt to do while time traveling, whatever had happened, is inevitable. So, if time travel were to exist or if it were to be invented, how do you think it will work? Like one of the two examples I listed, or something different altogether?

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  • like this

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  • the fabrics of space and time would tear and the universe would collapse in on itself and implode. happy?

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  • If a mode of time travel [i]has[/i] been invented, then the people who have travelled are those who win the biggest jackpots on the lottery.

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  • Hey I watched Looper on Movie Channel 1 yesterday too I've thought about it a couple times and studied it for a bit back in senior year of high school and it's complicated as fudge and I don't have the time to make 5 paragraphs about the concept so I'll go with whatever GuN said.

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  • If there were people that could travel back in time, we'd probably have met them by now.

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    • It would have to be able to fold space and time similar to folding a piece of paper in half. Instead of travelling from one end of the paper to the other, the fold allows you to travel from one corner to the next instantly. That would be one way to travel into the future.

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    • Edited by BADMAGIK: 7/15/2013 10:30:23 PM
      The theory goes, if going back in time was possible, there isn't any possible way you could change the present from where you came from. That would cause a paradox. Imagine if you went back in time to stop your father from ever meeting your mother. You can never completely stop your father from ever meeting your mother, because if you had been successful at doing so, how would you have been able to go back in the first place if you had prevented the entire meeting from occurring at all? You see it cannot work. The theory is that nature would correct itself from allowing the paradox to occur. You may delay the meeting, but in the end, your father will always meet your mother, thus creating your existence. Once an event in time occurs, it can never be changed. The only exception to this is if you were able to go back and upon doing so, you created an entirely different universe/ separate time stream. If this is how it works, it would kind of suck since you would never be able to return to your original time/universe since you merely arriving in the past changes/creates the new universe. Now it, is possible to travel to the future. If you were to travel just under the speed of light to say.....the next star closest to ours, and let's say it took you like a week to get there. Because you are traveling so fast, time around you speeds up which means your trip there and back for you, would only be about a week or whatever length, but here on Earth, 50 + years would have passed.

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      • We'd all be dead.

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      • 0
        One of the more feasible methods of time travel is actually based off of Einstein's concept that gravity is a space-time geometry, so basically that time and gravity are related (i.e. gravity is a distortion in space-time). You know, the man who spent the most time in space (I forgot his name) has (technically speaking) traveled in time, because since gravity is obviously significantly less in space, time also (according to the theory of Special Relativity) is actually different in space (basically it slows down), and since this astronaut spent so much time in space, technically speaking he is somewhere around 0.20 milliseconds younger than everyone else. Here's the link [url]http://pillownaut.blogspot.ca/2012/05/worlds-first-time-traveler.html[/url] Stephen Hawking used an analogy for this. Imagine two identical twins are born on Earth and say when they're both 20, one of them is put on a spaceship that travels close to the speed of light, while the other stays on Earth. Now, let's leap ahead 50 years later, when the twin on Earth is 70 and the other twin slows down his ship and decides to go back to Earth. Since the astronaut twin that was travelling close to the speed of light (~3.0*10^8 m/s), , time slowed exponentially for him, and technically speaking, he wouldn't have aged at all or aged very little (i.e. he'll still look like he's in his early 20s while his twin brother who stayed on Earth looks his grandfather)! A black hole is like a massive distortion in space time (the fourth dimension), so basically time slows down there as well because the gravity is so immense (ya know, not even light can escape the power of a black hole). Stephen Hawking, although not a supporter of the notion of building time machines and going into the past, does believe in this type of time travel. One theory that he supports on how the method of "time travel" I described earlier is to get a bunch of astronauts on a space ship and fly [b]really[/b] close to a black hole as long as it does not cross into the black hole's event horizon (the region where it is impossible for any type of matter to escape the gravitation force of a black hole). Basically, since space-time is altered in the area around the black hole, time slows down for the astronauts in the space ship around the black hole, and compared to Earth time would be much less....depending on how fast the spaceship is traveling. But feasibly, using this method, decades could be mere years for people in the spaceship around the blackhole. Another really cool idea I saw on the show "Universe" on H2 the other day was some astrophysicists were saying--*theoretically*--it could be possible to build a train that moves at the speed of light (but of course, the train would circle the earth, and probably would need lots of isolated land mass---and tracks that cross over all the oceans) but basically, the "passengers" of the train would also experience the effects of distorted space time (the incredibly fast speeds would affect gravity, which would affect time, essentially slowing it down) so people in this train could, theoretically speaking, be in this train for a century, and be the same age when they get off the train a century later. Another interesting aspect of space time is the Alcubierre device. So basically, it's a possible solution to how NASA could travel to distant stars---cause current space crafts travel at 0.0004 (?) percent the speed of light, or something like that, so a trip to alpha centauri would take tens of thousands of years for our current space craft to take----which is sad considering the stars in the centauri system (alpha centauri, beta centauri, and proxima centuari) are the closest to our sun. But the Alcubierre device ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive[/url]) basically, in a nutshell, also distorts space time so, hypothetically speaking, a spacecraft could achieve faster than light speed (NASA is actually getting to work on this as we speak to try to make this theoretical work possible---but it'll probably take a really really long time before anything tangible comes from this research-----[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White%E2%80%93Juday_warp-field_interferometer[/url]). But the problem here is that, since you're traveling faster than the speed of light, space time (the fourth dimension) gets altered too in this "hyperspace" of sorts, so people would experience alterations in time because gravity is significantly affected when you go at really really fast speeds (basically the whole time slowing down stuff), so a trip to a really far place like a star system in the Andromeda galaxy (the closest galaxy to the Milky Way Galaxy) and back could be (feasibly) only a few years to people traveling in the altered space-time hyperspace--but could be centuries, or even millena (!) for people on Earth. This is one of the more feasible methods of "time travel" a lot of current physicists (even Stephen Hawking--who is a really big critic of time machines that could allow people to go back in time) believe in. Maybe, a few centuries down the road, we could actually try out this nifty experiment and get some astronauts to circle around a black hole (but not close enough to get consumed by its ferocious force) and measure how much time has passed for them. But to the time machine thing, where you can go back to time and alter the past, there's a lot of debate on whether or not this is possible. Stephen Hawking as I mentioned before, really hates this idea, and even kind of did a pretty stupid experiment to prove his point. He basically held a "time traveler's party" and sent out invitations all over the place, and asserted that people in the future would hear about his party and, if these people in the future had built time machines, would travel back in time to his party. No one showed up, and then Stephen Hawking was all like "SEE? told ya time machines are a bunch of horse shit" (I'm paraphrasing to a significant degree) but yeah basically that's "a lot of evidence to him" ( I mean, hypothetically speaking, there could be a chance that there are time machines in the future, except no one gave enough -blam!-s to go Stephen Hawking's party or, more likely, wouldn't want to alter human history by exposing themselves or future technology). Hawking didn't ever really mention that in his "I'm probably right" speech. But a lot of brilliant minds sometimes do stuff like that. Newton, one of the founders of calculus and physicist extraordinaire, actually spent very little time doing mathematics and physics comapred to predicting the next doomsday---or ingesting copious amounts of mercury during his little alchemy "experiments" (mercury is a really poisonous chemical, that can potentially kill or cause serious health problems like psychoses and paranoia). Though, one of Hawking's more rational arguments against travel into the past is that, the way to achieve this actually through black holes, or (theoretical structures) called wormholes---and both involve getting through A LOT of radiation (even supporters of time travel acknowledge the radiation bit), I mean black holes emit a really large amount of gamma radiation, and going through one of these, even if you had the power to not be ripped to shreds by the black hole would involved going through unimaginable amounts of deadly radiation that, according to Stephen Hawking, would be impossible to survive through. [url=http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/is-time-travel-possible]Michio Kaku wrote a nice summary of it on his blog [/url] (cont.)

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        • simple.

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        • Time travel in one case isn't possible due to the fact that there would be so many paradoxes. For instance, say I went back in time to prevent my birth from ever happening by convincing my mother that she should have an abortion and she has an abortion. That's a paradox because I would cease to exist to begin with. Now if it were the other way around where you retain all of your knowledge in the present but you are you when you go back in time or forward into the future where there are no duplicates of you, then that's different. In terms of the past, sure you can try to change the outcome of something, but that probably won't be a big difference and depending on what it is that you are trying to change, the outcome would most likely remain the same.

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        • Edited by WickedNavajo: 7/15/2013 9:21:50 PM
          I would think we would be able to interact with and change things in the past, because we would still be physical beings and capable of touching (and thus altering) things. Or, we could be barred from our physical ability to interact with things, and could only observe from a distance the things that happen. I honestly don't know. It's too confusing.

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        • Can somebody explain how Fry is his own grandpa

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        • Edited by IchEsseKinder: 7/15/2013 9:17:20 PM
          Both theories are correct. If I were to go back in time and kill, say Hitler as a kid, the history that I know of Hitler committing genocide will only be knowledge to me but in effect sense he's dead and doesn't rise to power then nobody will learn of what he could have possibly done. Time travel is something that we experience every day. When star-gazing we see the universe millions of years ago because it takes time for light to travel. The Sun can go supernova any minute but because it takes 8 minutes for light to reach Earth, we're 8 minutes in the past in relation to the Sun. Manipulating this is the key for true time travel.

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          (cont.) But there are supports (even Einstein acknowledged that traveling into the past is possible---and not just "slowing down time at incredibly fast speeds" but legitimately going into the past and having the ability to alter the future (but, again only possibly). Who knows whether going back into time would have an effect on the future, some believe that going back into the past and altering events would lead to a separate universe and timeline (this happens in Dragon Ball Z, Future Trunks goes back and prevents Goku from dying and makes sure the androids don't rule the world---but his timeline where Goku and the other fighters are dead and where the androids did have a reign of tower is not destroyed, just merely a separate reality). Others believe that when you go back and alter the past, there is no separate continuity, and you directly affect the future. A physicist on "Universe" (a space show on History 2) was talking about time travel, and said--hypothetically--he could go back in time and prevent his grandparents from ever meeting, and that could effectively prevent his father or mother from being conceived, therefore wiping his existence off the face of the universe. [b]Or[/b] another possibility, according to him, was that he could try to alter the past as much as he wants, but the natural order of the universe would "adjust" his actions so the net effect would be the same. So each time the physicist I mentioned previously prevents his grandparents from meeting, the natural order of the universe will make it impossible for his grandparents not to meet and marry each other. The movie "The Time Machine" used the latter theory when, each time the protagonist tries to go back in time and prevent his fiance from getting killed, she inevitably dies one way or the other, no matter how many times he tries traveling in the past and tries to protect her. But yeah, the most feasible option most scientists think to "time travel" is to go at or near the speed of light or go around a massive black hole to experience the altered space time, which I guess, in a sense, is probably considered time traveling, but the old time machine and going into the past, no one really knows about that (for now).

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        • If time travel was real, I think it would be dangerous to time travel to a time before it was created, or else there is a chance it wouldn't have been created at all

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        • People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but [i]actually[/i] from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

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        • The way it worked in "The Butterfly Effect" is probably the best - when your knowledge/mind travels back to a younger version of you. However, travelling forward in time doesn't make any sense at all, no matter how you try to explain it. (Also, such a good concept, wasted in such a shitty film...)

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        • I think the biggest thing I would do is prevent 9/11 froim happening.. Hopefully that would prevent our country from going so much in the shit hole.

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          • Thinking about time travel gives me a huge headache O_o I just watch Terminator and I'm like K and don't over think it lest my brain explode

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          • Time is a where not a when. Like traveling between states, When you exist in one, you no longer exist in the other. You can visit a time you had already traveled through with the knowledge you have now, even change small details, but massive events will always find a way to overcome the butterfly effect.

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          • Edited by Jaaake AU: 7/15/2013 8:44:39 PM
            I like the alternate timeline approach. Time is like a line that is forever growing in one direction. When you go back in time, you branch off from the 'line' and into a reality where you had already gone back in time. So it would normally be like this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone and everything is going 'forwards'. By going back in time however, you're actually doing this >>>>>>>>>_>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where everyone else who didn't go back in time is living in the original timeline, but you're in an alternate one where you had always gone back in time. Obviously you can never go back to your original reality because you'll get a paradox (if you go back in time to kill Hitler, you'll only be killing him in an alternate reality. The reality that you came from would still know of Hitler... otherwise you wouldn't have killed him in the first place)

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            • Edited by SonOfTheShire: 7/15/2013 8:35:39 PM
              You talked about two types of time travel. There's the type where every change you make changes everything immediately. You step on a butterfly, you've just erased yourself from existence. This type is confusing and stupid. The second type was strict-timeline time travel, where everything is set in stone. You kill baby Hitler, and the maid switches him with a different baby who turns out to be the real Hitler. Nothing can change because everything has already happened. This type makes more sense, but it's boring. Both of these theories have something in common - they each have only one timeline. In the former, it's fluid and malleable; in the latter, it's rigid - you can't change it. Now take the idea of a single, main timeline, and wrap it around itself like a big ball of wool. Throw in a bunch of other timelines and wrap them around it as well. Then add some yarn for good measure. You now have a ball of [i]time.[/i] If you fish around in the ball of wool, you'll find the little strand that you're currently on. Look, there it is. Say hello. With your time machine (you have a time machine, by the way) you can travel backwards or forwards along the strand of wool. Normally, being a rookie, you'd go back in time to kill Hitler, but you've misplaced your English-to-German dictionary so you decide to put that off. Instead, you decide to travel to, say, the Jurassic, so you can ride a T-Rex (which, by the way, weren't actually around back then). If this were strict-timeline time travel, you'd accidentally land in the late-Cretaceous, becoming the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, wrapping up that string nicely. Instead, you land right on target in the Jurassic, as a time machine that wipes out all the dinosaurs early. Fortunately for you, your time machine is shielded on the inside, saving you from the planet-wide destruction that you just caused (you absolute [i]jerk[/i]). Deciding to cut your losses, you head back to the present (or the future, or whatever). Now, if this were fluid single-timeline time travel (I really need a better name for that), you would have erased yourself and every other human from existence with your premature dinosaur nuking (which, on that note, again you [i]jerk.[/i] What did the dinos ever do to you?). But this isn't singular fluid timeline time travel, this is time as a ball of yarn time travel, so you don't start to fade away or poof away or whatever. Instead, you return safely to the present. Of course, it's not [i]your[/i] present any more. Because you see, when you annihilated the dinosaurs (jerk!), you dropped off the thread you were on, and onto a different, stranger thread. Things have indeed changed. Instead of humans, the dominant lifeform is, uh... chipmunks. Giant, intelligent chipmunks. With wings. And, uh, monocles. Because, although as far as you're concerned (due to your personal timeline) the year 2013 was not inhabited by giant, flying, classy chipmunks, you've now changed timelines, [i]so it is.[/i] Also, they're flying swastikas from their chipmunk-y buildings. Because, as Godwin's Law of Time travel clearly states: [i]any and all changes made to the timeline will result in the Axis winning World War II.[/i] Way to go. You just nuked the dinosaurs [i]and[/i] put national socialist chipmunks in charge. You absolute jerk! ... I hope that cleared things up.

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              • I'd just like to go back and bang some quality women.

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              • I personally believe that if time traveling existed, you can never really go back to your own time plane. More specifically, there's a theory that there are infinite universes, each with "what if" scenarios of different outcomes of your past/present/future choices and decisions. Going back in time would send you to your current universe's alternate past; all your decisions have been made and going back would only result in reliving what's already happened, with the exception of there being two if you now, if you went to your past years, or you existing in a time that didnt host you (creating an alternate universe where two of you exist or you are a +1). On the other hand, going forward would result in you being shifted to a different plane where those decisions in your current present are applied to your real world. This works since even if your current decisions don't change (say you went back in time and immediately came right back), your current real world would stay the same but because there are potentially more existences of you, you're no longer in the same time plane. That's my theory anyway.

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              • I think if/when time travel is created/discovered/harnessed that it would only go back in time, and I think that we would either just have time reversed or be transported as our current selves back in time but our past self would still exist.

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