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originally posted in:Collective Of Knowledge
Edited by AnonPig:
5/19/2015 11:17:29 AM
60
Everything to know about Jaren Ward, Shin Malphur, and Dredgen Yor
Hello and welcome for the eighth -blam!-ing time guardians. Can I get a break soon? This is getting excessive. As always, I would like to welcome you all personally to the Collective of Knowledge! If you haven't been following these posts then this is the easiest way to find them. If you're really so opposed to making my day a little bit better you can just search CoK. This post will be about a favorite legend of many, Jaren Ward, Dredgen Yor, and Shin Malphur
[b]The Legend of Jaren Ward, Dredgen Yor, and Shin Malphur[/b]
Jaren Ward is the wielder of The Last Word. This gun is wrapped up in a story all of its own.
Starting from the Ghost Fragmen: The Last Word
This comes from the time known as the The City Age, really early on in this time to be accurate, in a far off settlement known as Palamon. They had no real set of government, only Magistrate Loken. A young boy, who lost his parents to dregs, lived there, young but watching. He saw the Magistrate and understood how he lost too much and how that was the cause for his tightening grip on the city. And his downfall.
We are taken to Ghost fragement: The Last Word 2
Jaren Ward, the owner of the Last word and the third father to the boy previously mentioned, came to Palamon from the south. The boy noticed the iron on Jaren's hip, how it looked both pristine and lived in. He knew the man was dangerous, but also saw that there was a light about him, a pureness to his weight that seemed to hint that his ire was something earned. The boy ran up to Jaren, against his current fathers wishes, and stared at the iron. He barely registered when Jaren started to kneel down offering the boy his sidearm. He took it in his hands.[quote]And I took the weapon in my hand. Carefully. Gently.
Not to use. But to observe. To imagine. To feel its weight and know its truth.
That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last.[/quote]The boy will one day wield that gun. I believe his name was Shin.
Now to go in a chronological order we must go to Ghost Fragment: The Dark Age 2
In this card we see what happens when the Magistrate confronts Jaren Ward. This Lekon was a scared man who didn't want to give up his power. Prodding at Jarens necessary ruthlessness was not the way to go however because it led to his death. The townsfolk watched and the nameless child, [i]Shin[/i], wished that his father would stop it. The townsfolk didn't want it to though, they understood what was happening. Shin left them to follow Jaren, and Jaren adopted the young boy.
[b]edit for The Last Word 3, my apologies[/b]
The nameless young man, who I still strongly believe to be Shin malphur, followed Jaren and other companions that he referred to as kids. I don't think that this implied they were truly children, only that they were in his custody. Jarens ghost was different from most others, it wouldn't talk to anyone, it would stare at Shin though. He thought it was only due to the closeness of him and Jaren, but there was clearly more.
Jaren was out in the woods away from everyones camp. There was a gunshot, sharp and clear to belong to The Last Word. Then there was another. [quote]One shot, dark and infernal. Followed by silence.[/quote]This one did not belong to The Last Word. I feel it safe to assume it belonged to Thorn, and was fired by Dredgen Yor. Shin ran out after the sounds and was met by a light, Jarens ghost, it spoke.
This story involves Dredgen Yor, the owner of Thorn. Starting with Ghost Fragment Thorn.
Let me first say that this card is said in the future tense, therefore someone who knew him personally, or an omnipotent beings thoughts.
The man who became Dredgen Yor was once a noble man. People looked up to him, he was a beacon – hope given form. He made them feel that anyone could stand against the dark as he did. He had a dark secret though, he had thoughts that were dark. [quote]Slowly the shadows' whisper became a voice, a dark call, offering glories enough to make even the brightest Light wander. He knew he was fading, yet he still yearned.
On his last day he sat and watched the sun fall. His final thoughts, pure of mind, if not body, held to a fleeting hope - though they would suffer for the man he would become, the people would remember him as he had been.
And so the noble man hid himself beneath a darkness no flesh should touch, and gave up his mortal self to claim a new birthright. Whether this was choice, or destiny, is a truth known only to fate.
In that cool evening air, as dusk was devoured by night, the noble man ceased to exist. In his place another stood.
Same meat. Same bone. But so very different.
The first and only of his family. The sole forbearer and last descendent of the name Yor.
In his first moments as a new being, he looked down at his Rose and realized for the first time that it held no petals: only the jagged purpose of angry thorns.[/quote]
From Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2[quote]ASSOCIATIONS: Breaklands; Durga; Last Word; Malphur, Shin; North Channel; Palamon; Thorn; Velor; Ward, Jaren; WoS; Yor, Dredgen;
[u.1:0.1] Can I see what you got there?
[silence]
[u.1:0.2] Yer cannon...can I see it?
[beat]
[u.2:0.1] I know you?
[beat]
[u.1:0.3] Not that I can say.
[u.2:0.2] And you wanna hold my piece?
[beat]
[u.1:0.4] Just that I never...seen one like it.
[beat]
[u.2:0.3] No, you haven't.
[u.1:0.5] Looks dangerous.
[u.2:0.4] Seems, maybe, that's the point.
[u.1:0.6] Suppose so.
[u.1:0.7] Can I see it?
[u.2:0.5] Not likely.
[silence]
[u.1:0.8] Where'd...where'd you find it?
[silence]
[u.1:0.9] You hearin' me?
[silence]
[u.3:0.1] He asked you question.
[silence]
[u.2:0.6] Didn't find it. Made it.
[u.1:1.0] Heh. Helluva touch you got then. You a 'smith?
[u.2:0.7] I look like a 'smith?
[u.1:1.1] Looks can be deceiving.
[u.2:0.8] Got that right.
[u.1:1.2] There a problem?
[u.2:0.9] Doesn't need to be.
[u.1:1.3] Glad we got that cleared up...Now, about that piece.
[silence]
[u.2:1.0] Been to Luna?
[u.1:1.4] Excuse me?
[u.2:1.1] The Moon. You been?
[u.1:1.5] Nobody's been.
[u.2:1.2] That a truth?
[u.1:1.6] That's a fact.
////INTENTIONAL BREAK FOR IMPORTANCE-AnonPig
[u.2:4.0] Look...
[audible sobbing]
[u.2:4.1] Look at it.
[u.2:4.2] Open your eyes.
[audible sobbing]
[u.2:4.3] Not many get such a clean view.
[u.2:4.4] The bone...You see it. Jagged, like thorns.
[u.2:4.5] I used to think of it as a rose...
[u.2:4.6] Focusing on its bloom.
[u.2:4.7] But the bloom is just a byproduct of its anger.
[silence]
[u.2:4.8] You have nightmares?
[audible sobbing]
[u.2:4.9] Ever seen a nightmare? Ever opened your eyes and realized the horror wasn't a dream? The terror wasn't gone?
[u.2:5.0] I've seen nightmares.
[u.2:5.1] They live in the shadows.
[u.2:5.2] They've been watching.
[u.2:5.3] I thought...It's foolish, I know...but I thought I saw a way.
[u.2:5.4] That maybe we could win. Maybe we could survive.
[u.2:5.5] But once you step into those shadows, it's so very hard to walk in the Light.[/quote]
As you read above, this is the end of a conversation between Dredgen and an small group of unknown bandits? In the end it doesn't really matter because this was their end. The importance of this is the distinction between how he saw his gun and how he sees it, as well as how the darkness(physical form) is finding its way into our guardians. It tells them things that make them doubt the possibility of winning. Could the darkness(physical form) be scared? [b]Could it actually be worried that we will win this time and needs to resort to a form of espionage to actaully harm us?[/b]
[i]Thanks to Jeuscifer for pointing out I missed a grimoire. It essentially ruined my final conclusion. I take full responsibility to everyone who misread this post and came to wrong conclusions, I will bumo everyone who commented the others I'm sorry.[/i]
With the new information I feel it's safe to assume Dredgen Yor is NOT Jaren Ward. I'm not willing to entirely wipe that theory off though. It still would make sense because no body has been seen, only thought about. While I say that, it is still most likely that Dredgen is separate and killed Jaren. Shin, loving Jaren like a father will no doubt break the rules of “How to Become a Guardian” because he never died! There is no doubt in my mind that Shin would take up The Last Word and swear a vengence on the killer of Jaren Ward. But really, what if we find that there is no body? How unlikely is it that Jaren found a new and more impressive gun? And simply cast aside The Last Word for Shin to find? Like I said, it's most likely that Dredgen killed Jaren and so on, but you can not denounce this as a possibility.
Thanks for reading, this is your friendly neighborhood AnonPig, and I'd just like to take this moment to say margaritas are not gay! [b]screw you dad![/b]
.
[b]as this is still being read and liked and bumped I thought I'd shamelessly plug my Twitter account here, @AnonPig for all updates and links to projects I will be working on from this point. I will no longer be posting on forums due to recent events that lead to a ban, thankyou for your time.[/b]
[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/115658936]AnonPig's Theories Archived[/url]
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[quote]Hello and welcome for the eighth -blam!-ing time guardians. Can I get a break soon? This is getting excessive. As always, I would like to welcome you all personally to the Collective of Knowledge! If you haven't been following these posts then this is the easiest way to find them. If you're really so opposed to making my day a little bit better you can just search CoK. This post will be about a favorite legend of many, Jaren Ward, Dredgen Yor, and Shin Malphur [b]The Legend of Jaren Ward, Dredgen Yor, and Shin Malphur[/b] Jaren Ward is the wielder of The Last Word. This gun is wrapped up in a story all of its own. Starting from the Ghost Fragmen: The Last Word This comes from the time known as the The City Age, really early on in this time to be accurate, in a far off settlement known as Palamon. They had no real set of government, only Magistrate Loken. A young boy, who lost his parents to dregs, lived there, young but watching. He saw the Magistrate and understood how he lost too much and how that was the cause for his tightening grip on the city. And his downfall. We are taken to Ghost fragement: The Last Word 2 Jaren Ward, the owner of the Last word and the third father to the boy previously mentioned, came to Palamon from the south. The boy noticed the iron on Jaren's hip, how it looked both pristine and lived in. He knew the man was dangerous, but also saw that there was a light about him, a pureness to his weight that seemed to hint that his ire was something earned. The boy ran up to Jaren, against his current fathers wishes, and stared at the iron. He barely registered when Jaren started to kneel down offering the boy his sidearm. He took it in his hands.[quote]And I took the weapon in my hand. Carefully. Gently. Not to use. But to observe. To imagine. To feel its weight and know its truth. That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last.[/quote]The boy will one day wield that gun. I believe his name was Shin. Now to go in a chronological order we must go to Ghost Fragment: The Dark Age 2 In this card we see what happens when the Magistrate confronts Jaren Ward. This Lekon was a scared man who didn't want to give up his power. Prodding at Jarens necessary ruthlessness was not the way to go however because it led to his death. The townsfolk watched and the nameless child, [i]Shin[/i], wished that his father would stop it. The townsfolk didn't want it to though, they understood what was happening. Shin left them to follow Jaren, and Jaren adopted the young boy. [b]edit for The Last Word 3, my apologies[/b] The nameless young man, who I still strongly believe to be Shin malphur, followed Jaren and other companions that he referred to as kids. I don't think that this implied they were truly children, only that they were in his custody. Jarens ghost was different from most others, it wouldn't talk to anyone, it would stare at Shin though. He thought it was only due to the closeness of him and Jaren, but there was clearly more. Jaren was out in the woods away from everyones camp. There was a gunshot, sharp and clear to belong to The Last Word. Then there was another. [quote]One shot, dark and infernal. Followed by silence.[/quote]This one did not belong to The Last Word. I feel it safe to assume it belonged to Thorn, and was fired by Dredgen Yor. Shin ran out after the sounds and was met by a light, Jarens ghost, it spoke. This story involves Dredgen Yor, the owner of Thorn. Starting with Ghost Fragment Thorn. Let me first say that this card is said in the future tense, therefore someone who knew him personally, or an omnipotent beings thoughts. The man who became Dredgen Yor was once a noble man. People looked up to him, he was a beacon – hope given form. He made them feel that anyone could stand against the dark as he did. He had a dark secret though, he had thoughts that were dark. [quote]Slowly the shadows' whisper became a voice, a dark call, offering glories enough to make even the brightest Light wander. He knew he was fading, yet he still yearned. On his last day he sat and watched the sun fall. His final thoughts, pure of mind, if not body, held to a fleeting hope - though they would suffer for the man he would become, the people would remember him as he had been. And so the noble man hid himself beneath a darkness no flesh should touch, and gave up his mortal self to claim a new birthright. Whether this was choice, or destiny, is a truth known only to fate. In that cool evening air, as dusk was devoured by night, the noble man ceased to exist. In his place another stood. Same meat. Same bone. But so very different. The first and only of his family. The sole forbearer and last descendent of the name Yor. In his first moments as a new being, he looked down at his Rose and realized for the first time that it held no petals: only the jagged purpose of angry thorns.[/quote] From Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2[quote]ASSOCIATIONS: Breaklands; Durga; Last Word; Malphur, Shin; North Channel; Palamon; Thorn; Velor; Ward, Jaren; WoS; Yor, Dredgen; [u.1:0.1] Can I see what you got there? [silence] [u.1:0.2] Yer cannon...can I see it? [beat] [u.2:0.1] I know you? [beat] [u.1:0.3] Not that I can say. [u.2:0.2] And you wanna hold my piece? [beat] [u.1:0.4] Just that I never...seen one like it. [beat] [u.2:0.3] No, you haven't. [u.1:0.5] Looks dangerous. [u.2:0.4] Seems, maybe, that's the point. [u.1:0.6] Suppose so. [u.1:0.7] Can I see it? [u.2:0.5] Not likely. [silence] [u.1:0.8] Where'd...where'd you find it? [silence] [u.1:0.9] You hearin' me? [silence] [u.3:0.1] He asked you question. [silence] [u.2:0.6] Didn't find it. Made it. [u.1:1.0] Heh. Helluva touch you got then. You a 'smith? [u.2:0.7] I look like a 'smith? [u.1:1.1] Looks can be deceiving. [u.2:0.8] Got that right. [u.1:1.2] There a problem? [u.2:0.9] Doesn't need to be. [u.1:1.3] Glad we got that cleared up...Now, about that piece. [silence] [u.2:1.0] Been to Luna? [u.1:1.4] Excuse me? [u.2:1.1] The Moon. You been? [u.1:1.5] Nobody's been. [u.2:1.2] That a truth? [u.1:1.6] That's a fact. ////INTENTIONAL BREAK FOR IMPORTANCE-AnonPig [u.2:4.0] Look... [audible sobbing] [u.2:4.1] Look at it. [u.2:4.2] Open your eyes. [audible sobbing] [u.2:4.3] Not many get such a clean view. [u.2:4.4] The bone...You see it. Jagged, like thorns. [u.2:4.5] I used to think of it as a rose... [u.2:4.6] Focusing on its bloom. [u.2:4.7] But the bloom is just a byproduct of its anger. [silence] [u.2:4.8] You have nightmares? [audible sobbing] [u.2:4.9] Ever seen a nightmare? Ever opened your eyes and realized the horror wasn't a dream? The terror wasn't gone? [u.2:5.0] I've seen nightmares. [u.2:5.1] They live in the shadows. [u.2:5.2] They've been watching. [u.2:5.3] I thought...It's foolish, I know...but I thought I saw a way. [u.2:5.4] That maybe we could win. Maybe we could survive. [u.2:5.5] But once you step into those shadows, it's so very hard to walk in the Light.[/quote] As you read above, this is the end of a conversation between Dredgen and an small group of unknown bandits? In the end it doesn't really matter because this was their end. The importance of this is the distinction between how he saw his gun and how he sees it, as well as how the darkness(physical form) is finding its way into our guardians. It tells them things that make them doubt the possibility of winning. Could the darkness(physical form) be scared? [b]Could it actually be worried that we will win this time and needs to resort to a form of espionage to actaully harm us?[/b] [i]Thanks to Jeuscifer for pointing out I missed a grimoire. It essentially ruined my final conclusion. I take full responsibility to everyone who misread this post and came to wrong conclusions, I will bumo everyone who commented the others I'm sorry.[/i] With the new information I feel it's safe to assume Dredgen Yor is NOT Jaren Ward. I'm not willing to entirely wipe that theory off though. It still would make sense because no body has been seen, only thought about. While I say that, it is still most likely that Dredgen is separate and killed Jaren. Shin, loving Jaren like a father will no doubt break the rules of “How to Become a Guardian” because he never died! There is no doubt in my mind that Shin would take up The Last Word and swear a vengence on the killer of Jaren Ward. But really, what if we find that there is no body? How unlikely is it that Jaren found a new and more impressive gun? And simply cast aside The Last Word for Shin to find? Like I said, it's most likely that Dredgen killed Jaren and so on, but you can not denounce this as a possibility. Thanks for reading, this is your friendly neighborhood AnonPig, and I'd just like to take this moment to say margaritas are not gay! [b]screw you dad![/b] . [b]as this is still being read and liked and bumped I thought I'd shamelessly plug my Twitter account here, @AnonPig for all updates and links to projects I will be working on from this point. I will no longer be posting on forums due to recent events that lead to a ban, thankyou for your time.[/b] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/115658936]AnonPig's Theories Archived[/url][/quote]
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Loved learning about the history of some of my favorite cannons. Thanks!!
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Bumpadump
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3 RepliesWhy is there so much lore for this garbage gun?
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Commenting for later
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Edited by stud_muffin72813: 9/27/2015 4:35:21 AMGood read
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6 RepliesHey guys! We made a Destiny short for the Bungie Day competition. It was inspired by this thread, and was taken directly from Ghost Fragment 3 of The Last Word. We would greatly appreciate it if you took a look, and gave it some light! We made it in 13 days with a lot of love, blood, sweat and tears! Thank you for your time, Light of the Traveler go with you! https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=141244274
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3 RepliesEdited by KSI HAWAIIAN UD: 8/18/2015 1:02:17 PMThe grimoir card Thorn 3 is really interesting. It's a confrontation between b Shin and Yor on Mars. I'll see of I can edit it into this comment Edit: I can't from my phone, but it's worth a look. Most interesting part is that Shin tries to call Yor by his old name, but the passage is redacted. Check it out, it's something worth adding
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7 RepliesImagine batman became the joker and Robin had to go kill him. That's the story of Jaren, Dredgen and Shin Malphur.
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2 RepliesThe way I heard it..... Speaker: you know I can't condone your plan of action. Shin: I'm not asking for your blessing. Speaker: Good because you won't get it. You know this won't bring them back. Shin: I know. Speaker: then who are you doing this for? What are you trying to prove Shin? Shin: I have nothing to prove. And I'm doing this for him. Speaker: He's gone for good, you have to let this go. For your own sake. Shin: you know I can't do that. Speaker: and you know Cayde won't sign off on this. Shin. He doesn't have to. Speaker: this is a critical moment in the war. We need every guardian we have fighting for the light. Not dying over personal vendettas. If you abandon us, if you turn your back on the light, you'll be just as bad as the monster you're hunting. Shin: If I stay, I'll never be as good as the man the monster once was. Speaker: so you would rather allow the darkness to consume you, just as it did him? Shin: I'm afraid, it already has. Speaker: what about luna? Is she not worth living for? Shin: it's been 3 weeks since the vanguard sent them up there to die. She's gone, Eris is gone, all of them. Toland warned us and they're gone anyway. Just like everyone else you've sent. Speaker: are you trying to punish us for that? Shin, the last thing any of us want, is to see guardians down. But this is war and sacrifices must be made. It's the life of a guardian. Shin: The life of a guardian? No, that's the death of one. and that's all we're good for. We fight until we die. We die until we can't revive, and then we are replaced. Speaker: what would you have us do? Lay down our arms? Allow the darkness to consume every man, woman, and child? You're right Shin, guardians are here to fight and die, so others won't have to. That's precisely what they are for. Shin: then I am not one. Speaker: Will that really be your last word? Shin: - Speaker: you know Shin, there's an ancient proverb, from long before the traveler. Before the golden age, all the way back, before humanity had learned the importance of unity. When the only wars were fought amongst ourselves. In the times of the ancients, they had a quarter of our knowledge, and a tenth of our technology. They had only wisdom that was equal to what we have now. All those years ago, and still even they knew, when you choose, to set out on the path of revenge, you should first dig two graves. One for your enemy and one for yourself. Shin:...I am halfway there, my journey will end when I dig his...not mine. Speaker: that was the last time I ever talked to my student, my friend, Shin Malphur. He is gone. But not forgotten. His legend still burns bright in the eyes of every young guardian. The horrid tale of Dredgen Yor's thorn, and The Last Word of renegade hunter Shin Malphur. The only one to face the monster, alone in the dark, and walk away, back into the light.
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1 ReplyWhy do you need to know about me? Stalkers....
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Seriously through post. Well done. And margaritas are great, anyone who says otherwise is allergic to fun.
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(>'.')> <('.'<) (^'.'^) <('.')> (v'.'v) ^('.')> <('.')^ (v'.')> <('.'v) (v'.'^) (^'.'v) ( '.') ('.' ) [spoiler]You have been greeted by Dancing Kirby[/spoiler]
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3 RepliesY'all are some nerds
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4 RepliesA lot of people are making a Star Wars inference to this story, which I think is spot on. Dredgen Yor is indeed a Darth Vader analog, with Jaren Ward is Anakin, and Shin Malphur, our Luke analog. People will reference Thorn 3 as evidence, but Thorn 1 is the better clue. The noble man that was a beacon to others around him, and the fact that this transformation occurred during the night. I do not believe, however, that Shin Malphur is dead, as it has been inferred that Guardians are immortal in lifespan so long as their ghosts live (I'm pretty sure also that Ikora Rey makes a joke about Guardians being so lonely from being quasi-immortal in lifespan, though I can't find a quote of it). This also would shed a light onto why Ikora Rey made sure that Eris Moor was permitted to stay at the Tower, a possible way for her (and the knowledge she possesses) to continue living, beyond the debt owed by Ikora for her sending her off in the first place. Firstly, the Player Character's corpse was among (and probably in) the ancient cars before the Cosmodrome. Additionally, the Ghost's first few sentences also back this up, stating that we'd been dead a very long time and that a lot of things would not make any sense. Additionally, it would also stand to reason and logic, that if we'd been resurrected by a Ghost prior to the Game's events and had died and not be revived by that Ghost, that we would have died in a fashion to prevent further revival in the first place. Also, according to Destinypedia, Dredgen Yor's rampage was during the "Recent City Age" and would likely make it far too recent for our corpse to be Shin's. As for the Archive quote "Greeting, Dr. Shin...," this is likely from the Access codes that the Ghost used to break into the Archive.
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3 RepliesEdited by Flmlight: 3/22/2015 11:58:09 AMThanks AnonPig. Your research and theories sparked some of my own and I thought I'd share them back. In the mission, "The Archive", our nameless guardian main character enters the Ishtar Collective's Archive and is immediately recognized as Dr. Shin. THEORY 1: Shin Malphur holds something special within him (maybe light related or lost knowledge). THEORY 2: The Traveler's ghosts are looking for Shin (maybe a prophecy or something of the sort is involved). THEORY 3: Dr Shin, Shin Malphur and the main protagonist are the same person. >> Explanation: The dark age is what came immediately after the collapse and the creation of the ghosts, not all had been lost at that time. Probably Shin Malphur survived after Jaren Ward's death and became the owner of the Last Word. He reached the city and joined the Ishtar academy (probably a few years just before Venus was destroyed). After Venus fell, he along with other scientist VIPs were evacuated to the last city. They didn't make it to the city. Something happened and he, along with others met their fate at the hands of Dredgen Yor in the cosmodrome outskirts. Dredgen was looking for bones in the outskirts to decorate Thorn. Dredgen takes the Last Word and disposes of it elsewhere. Shin's body rots over thousands of years until a Ghost finds it and revives him, making him a guardian. (make note that human lifespan had at least tripled for humans, so he could have lived for over 200 years: enough time for guardians to rise and fall assuming he was born just after the collapse) Supporting facts: The protagonists's Ghost's first line implies he was looking for you specifically (Story Mission: A Guardian Rises) [quote]The camera pans over the Cosmodrome in Old Russia. There are many old, abandoned, rusted cars. A Ghost flies around, scanning various cars. A Fallen Captain sees the Ghost and orders his troops to move towards it. A Ghost scans another car. GHOST: Is it possible? The Ghost opens up and continues scanning. GHOST: There you are.[/quote] The protagonist is recognized as "Shin" (Story Mission: The Archive): [quote]ARCHIVE AI: Welcome. Dr Shim. Please enter your security clearance code. GHOST: Dr Shin?[/quote] Jaren's Ghost was very interested in Shin (Ghost Fragment: The Last Word 3): [quote]From time to time I caught its gaze lingering on me, but always assumed the attention was a result of the bond Jaren and I had.[/quote] Shin implies he is special in some way to Jaren or his ghost (Ghost Fragment: The Last Word 3): [quote]At the time I didn't know why he'd singled me out as someone to care for. Someone to protect. After all the loss, I welcomed it, but looking back—taking in the arm's length at which he kept the others—I guess I should've known, or at least suspected there was more to it.[/quote] There seems to be a lot of bones wherever Malphur was killed by Dredgen (like in the outskirts of the cosmodrome) (Ghost Fragment: Thorn 2): [quote][u.2:1.4] The bones say otherwise. [u.1:1.9] Speak straight. [u.2:1.5] You say "nobody." Bones say otherwise. [u.1:2.0] What bones? [u.2:1.6] All of them.[/quote] EXTRA THEORY: Jaren Ward's Ghost and our Ghost are the same. >> This would explain some sort of attachment between both. Assumptions that may support the theories: Guardians do not retain their memories of their past life, or maybe they don't remember them immediately. Shin might know something important, he just has to remember. Maybe Dredgen was now an Agent of the Darkness and was hunting Shin. That would explain the "dark and infernal" shot that killed Jaren and the time lapse until Shin's death. EDIT: I wrote all this down and then noticed it's Dr SHIM... not Shin. I guess these theories go to waste... Had fun researching though... Some things might still add up though. I've read other theories that state Ghosts as being the souls of previous humans or guardians. Maybe that could fit here.
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[url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/141856406/0/0]Happy AnonPig Day[/url]
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4 RepliesEdited by Mattaki: 6/2/2015 10:25:40 PMI read a grimoire the other day made me think your theory was right let me find it Edit: It was the Thorn 3 grimoire card. [quote]TYPE: Transcript. DESCRIPTION: Conversation. PARTIES: Two [2]. One [1] Ghost-type, designate [REDACTED] [u.1], One [1] Guardian-type, Class [REDACTED] [u.2] ASSOCIATIONS: [REDACTED]; Breaklands; Durga; Last Word; Malphur, Shin; North Channel; Palamon; Thorn; Velor; Ward, Jaren; WoS; Yor, Dredgen; //AUDIO UNAVAILABLE// //TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS.../[/quote] This here shows who is talking a ghost and a guardian. It goes on to associations and gives locations then a weapon and then a person. Shin Malphur is associated with Last Word. Jaren Ward and Yor are associated with thorn. [quote][u.1:0.1] You were not always this man. [u.2:0.1] True. [u.1:0.2] Then the math says you do not need to remain this man. You can be other. [u.2:0.2] I am other. [u.1:0.3] You can be better. [u.2:0.3] This is better. [u.1:0.4] That matter, at best, is subjective. [u.2:0.4] Then what? Lesser. [u.1:0.5] Some would say. [u.2:0.5] But what would you say? [silence] [u.2:0.6] All we’ve seen and now, here with me, you have no words. [u.1:0.6] I have words. [u.2:0.7] But...? [u.1:0.7] But you will not like them. [u.2:0.8] There is much I do not like. [u.1:0.8] More now than ever it would seem. [u.2:0.9] Heh. [u.1:0.9] I find no laughing matter in your path. [u.2:1.0] Only in the journey. [u.1:1.0] What brought you here was nobility. [u.2:1.1] And my prize. [u.1:1.1] That is no prize. [u.2:1.2] A curse then? [u.1:1.2] I would say. [u.2:1.3] And I would disagree. [u.1:1.3] You are no longer yourself. [u.2:1.4] I am myself. It’s who I was that’s gone. [u.1:1.4] Who you were held all the value. [u.2:1.5] To you. [u.1:1.5] To the Light. [u.2:1.6] The Light... [u.1:1.6] It is all. [u.2:1.7] It is nothing but a crutch. [u.1:1.7] One that has held you up. [u.2:1.8] Only just. And nothing more. [u.1:1.8] Nothing more? You were a hero. [u.2:1.9] And yet people still die. Corruption still exists. Light still fades. And Darkness still spreads. [u.1:1.9] As it will ever be, that doesn’t mean you give in to... [u.2:2.0] To what? Hope. [u.1:2.0] This is not hope. [u.2:2.1] This is peace. [u.1:2.1] You have blood on your hands. [u.2:2.2] How’s that any different than prior? [u.1:2.2] Innocent blood. [u.2:2.3] Matter of perspective. [u.1:2.3] That’s the shadow talking. [u.2:2.4] And am I not. [u.1:2.4] The shadow? [u.2:2.5] Ya know... These past cycles, you’ve made an honorable effort. Tried your best to correct my course. But I don’t know it needs correcting. [u.1:2.5] And if it does? [u.2:2.6] Could be too late. [u.1:2.6] 'Could be' is a winding path. [u.2:2.7] Long way from where I was to where I’m going. [u.1:2.7] That is my hope. That there is still time. [u.2:2.8] For? [u.1:2.8] Corrective measures. The righting of our path. The cleansing of your shadow and a return to the Light. [silence] [u.2:2.9] Why’d you pick me? [u.1:2.9] It doesn’t work that way. [u.2:3.0] Was I special? [u.1:3.0] You were. [u.2:3.1] But only as special as any other. [u.1:3.1] You are all special. [u.2:3.2] Seems to contradict the word don’t it. [u.1:3.2] Not in my estimation. [u.2:3.3] If we’re all special, are any of us special? [u.1:3.3] Is that what you want? To be special? [u.2:3.4] Heh. [u.1:3.4] You dismiss, but it’s a very serious questions. Is that all you’re after? Is all of the death worth that badge? [u.2:3.5] Am I not already more than the rest? [u.1:3.5] Looking at you here, now. The smoke, ash and bone at your feet mark you as so much less. [u.2:3.6] Maybe. And yet here you are. [u.1:3.6] Meaning? [u.2:3.7] You have been at my side every step of the way. [u.1:3.7] Where else would I be? [u.2:3.8] Yet you disagree so thoroughly with my change in perspective. [u.1:3.8] If only the change was simply one of perspective. You’re “evolution” was no choice. This is not you having come to an understanding after careful considered thought. This is corruption. [u.2:3.9] The shadows? [u.1:3.9] The Darkness. [u.2:4.0] Maybe so. [u.1:4.0] There is no maybe here. [u.2:4.1] And you think you can save me? [u.1:4.1] I rekindled your Light, it falls first to me to aid in its survival. [silence] [u.2:4.2] I tire of it. [u.1:4.2] You must try... [u.2:4.3] I tire of you. [u.1:4.3] [REDACTED]... [u.2:4.4] That is no longer my name. [u.1:4.4] I will not speak the other. [u.2:4.5] It doesn’t matter. This is where we part ways. [u.1:4.5] I will not leave you. [u.2:4.6] I am leaving you. [u.1:4.6] Without me, your journey ahead will be more than any one Guardian can handle. [u.2:4.7] That’s the point. It’s been sometime since you saw me as worthy of walking among those I once called brother and sister. Yet... anymore, I feel as though I am worthy of so much more. [u.1:4.7] Without me... You will die. [u.2:4.8] Someday. Won’t be the first time. [silence] [u.2:4.9] Consider this my last good deed. I am releasing you of the burden of my deeds, both done and yet to come. [u.1:4.8] I will not abandon you. [u.2:5.0] You will. Or I will carve the Light from your shell and leave the carcass of my first and last friend in the dirt of this dull, red world for no one to find. [u.1:4.9] Then I’ve failed you, completely. [u.2:5.1] Not me. Maybe the man I was. [u.1:5.0] He is truly dead. [u.2:5.2] I believe so. [u.1:5.1] Belief is not fact. [u.2:5.3] Semantics I no longer have the patience for. [silence] [u.2:5.4] When you speak of me, use my proper name. Tell them of the man that stands before you, not the ghost of the hero I once was. [u.1:5.2] You will always be [REDACTED] to me. [u.2:5.5] If you cannot let that man go, you will forever taint his legacy. All the good I have ever done will be washed away in the fire of who I have become. [u.1:5.3] If you care, there is still some promise within you. [u.2:5.6] If I am being honest, I care only to give hope to the frightened, huddled masses so that when I come upon them they will have more to lose. Their pain will be greater. Their screams more pure. [u.1:5.4] You... [u.2:5.7] Nothing dies like hope. I cherish it. [u.1:5.5] You’re a monster. [u.2:5.8] Finally, you see the truth. [u.1:5.6] [REDACTED] is truly dead. [u.2:5.9] So I’ve said. Long live Dredgen Yor. [u.1:5.7] This is farewell, but you can only run from your sins so far. In the end, you will die alone. [u.2:6.0] Maybe so. But I gotta tell ya... I tend to like my odds. [u.1:5.8] Your tainted “Rose” will not always save you. [u.2:6.1] Old friend... It already has.[/quote] Here is the transcript. In it you can clearly see Dredgen Yor talking to his ghost telling him to leave him. The ghost leaves. I say that this is what happened on the night Shin heard the shots. Dredgen or Jaren fired both guns before leaving the Last Word and only using his Thorn. The ghost Shin encounters is the ghost of Jaren/Dredgen who had left the living guardian.
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1 Replyples reply this is beautiful
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4 RepliesShin Malphur is the same man from the Archive on Venus right?
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1 ReplyA few questions about shin, Where were Jaren and the group going and why did they leave the settlement? What exactly happened after jarens ghost found shin? Also, I think it may be possible that the people dredgen had the conversation with are the others that were in the group with jaren and shin. Maybe.
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27 RepliesI made my own post about this and someone referred me to you, see what you think of it, ours seems pretty similar... This is my interpretation of the grimoire on the subject of the last word and thorn, this is not anything official but I can say with a fair bit of confidence that the majority of this is accurate... The card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THORN" is just back story for Dredgen Yor. First let's start with the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD": In this card a man is looking back at his time as a child, I assume this child to be Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur and I will explain exactly why later, but for now I'll work off the assumption that he in fact is. It was set in the city Palamon and he describes it's strife, mainly back story to set the scene. The important part of this card is the quote at the end "Until two men entered my world. One a light. The other the darkest shadow I would ever know.", I'd say "One a light" of course refers to Jaren Ward - The owner of the last word, and "The other the darkest shadow I would ever know", refers quite clearly to Dredgen Yor - The owner of the Thorn. When looking at the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD 2", you can see that the first paragraph backs my claim that "One a light" refers to Jaren Ward: "The man I would come to know as Jaren Ward, my third father and quite possibly my closest friend, came to Palamon from the south. I was just a boy...", this states that Jaren did in fact come to Palamon while the writer was a child, when describing Jaren Ward the writer denotes: "This man was dangerous, but there was a light about him", note the use of the phrase 'there was a light about him'. Near the end of the card we can see the writer states "I turned back to the man I would come to know as Jaren Ward, the finest Hunter this system may ever know and one of the greatest Guardians to ever defend the Traveler's Light...", this is important as it shows that Jaren DEFENDS the traveler's light, this tells us that there in fact is no transformation from Jaren into Dredgen as many speculate. And that The Last Word doesn't change into Thorn, this is because Dredgen has always owned Thorn/Rose and now we can deduct that Jaren and Dredgen are not the same person (more proof if you want later). At the end of the card Jaren hands the boy The Last Word and the boy states "That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last.", this is important later. For this part 2 Grimoire cards are important as they reinforce eachother, Let's first start with "GHOST FRAGMENT: THORN 2": In this card there are 4 individuals referred to only in the format [u.1:x.x], [u.2:x.x], [u.3:x.x], [u.4:x.x]. The 'x's represent which line it is that they have spoken [u.1:0.9] means it is "u.1"'s 9th line [u.1:1.0] means it is their 10th line etc. u.1, u.3 and u.4 are not obvious but we can easily infer u.2 is in fact Dredgen Yor using "[u.2:4.3] Not many get such a clean view. [u.2:4.4] The bone...You see it. Jagged, like thorns. [u.2:4.5] I used to think of it as a rose... [u.2:4.6] Focusing on its bloom. [u.2:4.7] But the bloom is just a byproduct of its anger." In this we can clearly see it is Dredgen talking about his gun Thorn and how he used to see it as a Rose despite no real transformation taking place, further solidifying that Dredgen is not Jaren and The Last Word is not Thorn or Rose. In the card u.2 (Dredgen), kills u.1, u.3 and u.4. It is also important to note that in the card they spoke in a western style and were admiring Dredgen's gun (clearly hunters or the sort). To get an idea of who the other 3 individuals are we have to look at the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD 3", in this card there are several important sentences to note: "Trail wasn't cold, but lukewarm would've been an exaggeration." "Jaren had us hold by a ravine." "There were six of us then." "Three less than two moons prior, but still, one more than when we'd first turned our backs to Palamon's ash." "...it was his (Jaren's) death that rekindled my own fire." "...any enthusiasm we'd had was set to wither soon as Brevin, Trenn and Mel were gunned down." 1. This states they are looking for something or someone. 2. The story teller isn't Jaren. 3 + 4 + 6. This states there were 9 in the hunting party but 3 were killed, by the names Brevin, Trenn and Mel... But hang on, 3 people were killed in the card "GHOST FRAGMENT: THORN 2", so we can assume they were u.1, u.3 and u.4 in no particular order. So does 1. mean they were looking for Dredgen? Maybe... 5. Jaren is dead, thus is not Yor, also he actually died after Brevin, Trenn and Mel. (reason why is further down). Also in "GHOST FRAGMENT: THE LAST WORD 3", the speaker says"From time to time I caught its gaze lingering on me, but always assumed the attention was a result of the bond Jaren and I had. He was a father to me." and in Fragment 1 it also mentions "The man I would come to know as Jaren Ward, my third father" , using this, "That was the first time I held "Last Word," but, unfortunately, not the last." and ""Yours...not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor during the showdown at Dwindler's Ridge", we can finally quite safely assume that the boy in the stories and narrator of the "The last word" cards is in fact Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur. There are now 2 very important parts up coming: "A familiar ring. "Last Word." Jaren's sidearm. His best friend. Then another. A single shot, an unmistakable echo calling through the night. Hushed, cutting. One shot, dark and infernal. Followed by silence." And, "Jaren was gone. Off on his own." "He'd gone to face death alone." We of course all know the familiar hissing sound of Thorn, in this moment, Dredgen Yor had Killed Jaren Ward: "Jaren Ward lay dead or dying. And there was nothing to be done." Another important part is that Shin states: "Vengeance had grown stale as a motivator." alongside the earlier quote "Trail wasn't cold, but lukewarm would've been an exaggeration." we can strongly infer that they were hunting Dredgen Yor as a group. Now a very important quote is coming up: "Either I would find Jaren and set him at ease, or the other would find me and that would be a fitting end.", note how he refers to Dredgen as "the other", just as he says "The other the darkest shadow I would ever know" earlier on. This also sets up the scene for the showdown at Dwindler's Ridge which is mentioned in the "The Last Word" grimoire card. This is all I have for you guys so far, not sure if I missed something from somewhere in the grimoire. I assume that Shin found Jaren's body after Dredgen killed Jaren, took TLW and Shin hunted down Dredgen and they had a showdown at Dwindler's ridge. Who won? I'm not sure, my assumption would be Shin Malphur due to the phrase "Yours... not mine" which seems like something you'd say just before you blow someone's brains out. Either way both are currently dead.
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6 RepliesEdited by Jio: 2/3/2015 12:54:53 AMGrimoire - Last Word 3 ends with Jaren's death. He died because he thought he was saving his squad despite the fact that his actions were rash and reckless. I'm willing to believe Dredgen Tor was probably a Warlock as Warlocks are known for going mad especially given the nature of their curiosity with the dark (Voidwalker is hinted at being similar to Hive Wizard magick). Plus, Thorn and Last Word look far too different.
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3 RepliesThere is one card that shows the script of the final conversation/confrontation between Jaren Ward and the Guardian now known as Dredgen Yor. They are two separate beings. Interesting that they REDACTED Yor's true name that Jaren keeps trying to call him. Love this story! Keep seeking!
